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Re-read the last section entitled "Go ahead, buy that bag of fries". The lady chooses to buy small luxuries to help her cope with her life. Whether that's a v

Re-read the last section entitled "Go ahead, buy that bag of fries". The lady chooses to buy small luxuries to help her cope with her life. Whether that's a valid approach is up for debate but that money is there.

ddingus 8y ago
Or not. The reality is people in that scenario have a backlog of unmet needs as well as unsatisfied obligations, and the occasional, but consistent enough set of unexpected costs to render saving almost moot. Skip the fries Skip the debt collector Skip that new light bulb Skip proper heating Etc... Manage to save a couple hundred, car breaks down, kid gets sick. That's how it goes. At some point, risk reward will make crime / going on the hustle very attractive. Then that happens.
- zozbot123 8y ago
  > Manage to save a couple hundred, car breaks down, kid gets sick. I know that I'm supposed to address the strongest interpretation of a comment, not the weakest one - but I genuinely cannot tell what your point might be here? That having 200 bucks saved up when that emergency hits has no value? That it's better to have a broken car you can't afford to repair, and maybe lose your job as a result? It literally makes no sense to me.
  - ddingus 8y ago
    It totally has value! But, that value isn't escaping poverty, just coping. I will add more context next time. Good feedback on a difficult topic.
  - ddingus 8y ago
    Secondly, and this is my preference, but there is no need to address the strongest component. Really, this exercise has high value when we seek understanding. You did that by getting after the question in your mind, rather than some form or protocol. That's where the good stuff is, most frequently. Not always, but good conversation hits home far more than appropriate, or proper conversation does. Well played, I often do the same.
EliRivers 8y ago
She knows she's already fucked. Not going to make rent. Already in debt and dodging bailiffs and debt collectors and intimidating loan-sharks, none of whom she has any chance of paying off. Hoping she doesn't get sick because she'll lose her job and end up on the streets. If her wreck of a car suffers a minor fault, she's going to lose her job. She knows she's already fucked. Not buying the bag of fries will not help her. She's already fucked. Her choice is tiny bit of happiness now and lots of misery, or just lots of misery. She's already fucked. Middle class advice on making small savings to build up a pot of cash is not relevant. I know you read the article, but you just can't stop with the very same irrelevant advice the article is pointing out is irrelevant.
- zozbot123 8y ago
  > Already in debt and dodging bailiffs and debt collectors and intimidating loan-sharks, none of whom she has any chance of paying off. Okay, then maybe she should consider declaring personal bankruptcy and getting a clean start? There are some debts that cannot be discharged using bankruptcy, but they're not the sort of debt that f---s you over and that you have no chance in hell of paying off. Solutions are out there, she should use them.
  - EliRivers 8y ago
    Yet they don't. Why not? Why is your advice here not being taken?
    - brianpgordon 8y ago
      I think he has a point that you're assuming debt is the problem. It seems to me that she's just not being paid a living wage. If she's really struggling that much to make rent I would be surprised if anyone would give her credit at all, other than maybe short-term payday loans. And declaring bankruptcy every month doesn't help you avoid eviction.
      - EliRivers 8y ago

ddingus 8y ago

Or not. The reality is people in that scenario have a backlog of unmet needs as well as unsatisfied obligations, and the occasional, but consistent enough set of unexpected costs to render saving almost moot. Skip the fries Skip the debt collector Skip that new light bulb Skip proper heating Etc... Manage to save a couple hundred, car breaks down, kid gets sick. That's how it goes. At some point, risk reward will make crime / going on the hustle very attractive. Then that happens.

zozbot123 8y ago
> Manage to save a couple hundred, car breaks down, kid gets sick. I know that I'm supposed to address the strongest interpretation of a comment, not the weakest one - but I genuinely cannot tell what your point might be here? That having 200 bucks saved up when that emergency hits has no value? That it's better to have a broken car you can't afford to repair, and maybe lose your job as a result? It literally makes no sense to me.
- ddingus 8y ago
  It totally has value! But, that value isn't escaping poverty, just coping. I will add more context next time. Good feedback on a difficult topic.
- ddingus 8y ago
  Secondly, and this is my preference, but there is no need to address the strongest component. Really, this exercise has high value when we seek understanding. You did that by getting after the question in your mind, rather than some form or protocol. That's where the good stuff is, most frequently. Not always, but good conversation hits home far more than appropriate, or proper conversation does. Well played, I often do the same.

EliRivers 8y ago

She knows she's already fucked. Not going to make rent. Already in debt and dodging bailiffs and debt collectors and intimidating loan-sharks, none of whom she has any chance of paying off. Hoping she doesn't get sick because she'll lose her job and end up on the streets. If her wreck of a car suffers a minor fault, she's going to lose her job. She knows she's already fucked. Not buying the bag of fries will not help her. She's already fucked. Her choice is tiny bit of happiness now and lots of misery, or just lots of misery. She's already fucked. Middle class advice on making small savings to build up a pot of cash is not relevant. I know you read the article, but you just can't stop with the very same irrelevant advice the article is pointing out is irrelevant.

zozbot123 8y ago
> Already in debt and dodging bailiffs and debt collectors and intimidating loan-sharks, none of whom she has any chance of paying off. Okay, then maybe she should consider declaring personal bankruptcy and getting a clean start? There are some debts that cannot be discharged using bankruptcy, but they're not the sort of debt that f---s you over and that you have no chance in hell of paying off. Solutions are out there, she should use them.
- EliRivers 8y ago
  Yet they don't. Why not? Why is your advice here not being taken?
  - brianpgordon 8y ago
    I think he has a point that you're assuming debt is the problem. It seems to me that she's just not being paid a living wage. If she's really struggling that much to make rent I would be surprised if anyone would give her credit at all, other than maybe short-term payday loans. And declaring bankruptcy every month doesn't help you avoid eviction.
    - EliRivers 8y ago