5 ms·

What a terrible article. Sure, yeah, you're poor, own it, give up. Go buy that fast food shit, get fat and damage your health. Buy all that alcohol that helps y

by jotm 8y ago

What a terrible article. Sure, yeah, you're poor, own it, give up. Go buy that fast food shit, get fat and damage your health. Buy all that alcohol that helps you get through life, that will definitely help. FFS. No, you try, fail, try again, fail, try some more - to save up, and start making more. All that advice glosses over just how hard it actually is (not that it can even convey it properly), and it takes time, but you can't give up unless you're ready to kick the bucket at any time.

EliRivers 8y ago
This advice seems pretty irrelevant. She just said that these people do not have any spare money to save up, but this advice is "save up".
- ThrowawayR2 8y ago
  Re-read the last section entitled "Go ahead, buy that bag of fries". The lady chooses to buy small luxuries to help her cope with her life. Whether that's a valid approach is up for debate but that money is there.
  - ddingus 8y ago
    Or not. The reality is people in that scenario have a backlog of unmet needs as well as unsatisfied obligations, and the occasional, but consistent enough set of unexpected costs to render saving almost moot. Skip the fries Skip the debt collector Skip that new light bulb Skip proper heating Etc... Manage to save a couple hundred, car breaks down, kid gets sick. That's how it goes. At some point, risk reward will make crime / going on the hustle very attractive. Then that happens.
    - zozbot123 8y ago
      > Manage to save a couple hundred, car breaks down, kid gets sick. I know that I'm supposed to address the strongest interpretation of a comment, not the weakest one - but I genuinely cannot tell what your point might be here? That having 200 bucks saved up when that emergency hits has no value? That it's better to have a broken car you can't afford to repair, and maybe lose your job as a result? It literally makes no sense to me.
      - ddingus 8y ago
        It totally has value! But, that value isn't escaping poverty, just coping. I will add more context next time. Good feedback on a difficult topic.
      - ddingus 8y ago
        Secondly, and this is my preference, but there is no need to address the strongest component. Really, this exercise has high value when we seek understanding. You did that by getting after the question in your mind, rather than some form or protocol. That's where the good stuff is, most frequently. Not always, but good conversation hits home far more than appropriate, or proper conversation does. Well played, I often do the same.
  - EliRivers 8y ago
    She knows she's already fucked. Not going to make rent. Already in debt and dodging bailiffs and debt collectors and intimidating loan-sharks, none of whom she has any chance of paying off. Hoping she doesn't get sick because she'll lose her job and end up on the streets. If her wreck of a car suffers a minor fault, she's going to lose her job. She knows she's already fucked. Not buying the bag of fries will not help her. She's already fucked. Her choice is tiny bit of happiness now and lots of misery, or just lots of misery. She's already fucked. Middle class advice on making small savings to build up a pot of cash is not relevant. I know you read the article, but you just can't stop with the very same irrelevant advice the article is pointing out is irrelevant.
    - zozbot123 8y ago
      > Already in debt and dodging bailiffs and debt collectors and intimidating loan-sharks, none of whom she has any chance of paying off. Okay, then maybe she should consider declaring personal bankruptcy and getting a clean start? There are some debts that cannot be discharged using bankruptcy, but they're not the sort of debt that f---s you over and that you have no chance in hell of paying off. Solutions are out there, she should use them.
      - EliRivers 8y ago
        Yet they don't. Why not? Why is your advice here not being taken?
        brianpgordon 8y ago
        I think he has a point that you're assuming debt is the problem. It seems to me that she's just not being paid a living wage. If she's really struggling that much to make rent I would be surprised if anyone would give her credit at all, other than maybe short-term payday loans. And declaring bankruptcy every month doesn't help you avoid eviction.
        EliRivers 8y ago
- jacoblambda 8y ago
  I'm not the OP but I have a somewhat similar mindset. My advice isn't just "save up", it's the following. Look for a better paying job and scrape together every dime you can until then. Don't indulge in the burger or chips, spend that on making a massive pot of cheap hearty soup, stew, or gumbo that'll last you through the week. Bunker down and take free indulgences. (a free game or movie from a maybe less than official source on the internet if you have to) And when I say look for another job, I know that sounds like horrible advice but it is valid. Look for the physically demanding job with long hours. Mine was in a mushroom packaging plant. It was hard work for 60+ hours a week and most people gave up in less than 2 weeks but it was good consistent money. Places like that exist all around. On paper they look like low income with poor work conditions but overtime is extremely helpful when you work 60+ hours a week. Life is not by any means pleasant when you are poor but if you are as frugal as possible and know where to look you can almost always find a job that will leave you not always worrying about being able to pay the bills. Then you can start saving.
  - EliRivers 8y ago
    This advice doesn't work for those who need childcare for those 60+ hours a week, those who simply don't have access to facilities to cook cheap gumbo (cheapest places don't have cooking facilities), those who cannot store gumbo for a week (fridges aren't free), those who don't happen to live within walking distance of such a job, and so on. There is a wealth of ways that healthy people with nothing but free time (to both work 60+ hours, AND to find that work; how did you pay for yourself while you were finding that work? Can everyone else use that same source of funding?) and access to basic facilities can help themselves. But once people fall so far that your advice is no longer applicable, and they find themselves living somewhere like the US, they're fucked permanently. A permanent underclass.
  - rue 8y ago
    Could you, for a minute, consider that maybe your advice actually doesn’t apply or help? I know it’s a staggering thought, but give it a go.
- jotm 8y ago
  The article's conclusion is "yeah, forget trying, get that fast food, indulge in what makes you feel better about your shit circumstances" Which is the worst thing one can say. It's just a short term relief. If you plan on living, you need to NOT waste money AND always look for better opportunities. At the core, there's really three options: Advance (save more, learn more, to ultimately earn more), survive hoping there's no major personal disasters, or die. If you plan on living, it's best not to give into the easy choice. Also typical HN, discuss poverty and pat yourselves on the back for thinking about the poor (unlike those other cunts), while downvoting people with actual experience because it makes you feel bad. Waah, waah. Just fucking ban this account already, I don't even know why I'm here. Upvotes for everyone.
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by jotm 8y ago

EliRivers 8y ago

This advice seems pretty irrelevant. She just said that these people do not have any spare money to save up, but this advice is "save up".

ThrowawayR2 8y ago
Re-read the last section entitled "Go ahead, buy that bag of fries". The lady chooses to buy small luxuries to help her cope with her life. Whether that's a valid approach is up for debate but that money is there.
- ddingus 8y ago
  Or not. The reality is people in that scenario have a backlog of unmet needs as well as unsatisfied obligations, and the occasional, but consistent enough set of unexpected costs to render saving almost moot. Skip the fries Skip the debt collector Skip that new light bulb Skip proper heating Etc... Manage to save a couple hundred, car breaks down, kid gets sick. That's how it goes. At some point, risk reward will make crime / going on the hustle very attractive. Then that happens.
  - zozbot123 8y ago
    > Manage to save a couple hundred, car breaks down, kid gets sick. I know that I'm supposed to address the strongest interpretation of a comment, not the weakest one - but I genuinely cannot tell what your point might be here? That having 200 bucks saved up when that emergency hits has no value? That it's better to have a broken car you can't afford to repair, and maybe lose your job as a result? It literally makes no sense to me.
    - ddingus 8y ago
      It totally has value! But, that value isn't escaping poverty, just coping. I will add more context next time. Good feedback on a difficult topic.
    - ddingus 8y ago
      Secondly, and this is my preference, but there is no need to address the strongest component. Really, this exercise has high value when we seek understanding. You did that by getting after the question in your mind, rather than some form or protocol. That's where the good stuff is, most frequently. Not always, but good conversation hits home far more than appropriate, or proper conversation does. Well played, I often do the same.
- EliRivers 8y ago
  She knows she's already fucked. Not going to make rent. Already in debt and dodging bailiffs and debt collectors and intimidating loan-sharks, none of whom she has any chance of paying off. Hoping she doesn't get sick because she'll lose her job and end up on the streets. If her wreck of a car suffers a minor fault, she's going to lose her job. She knows she's already fucked. Not buying the bag of fries will not help her. She's already fucked. Her choice is tiny bit of happiness now and lots of misery, or just lots of misery. She's already fucked. Middle class advice on making small savings to build up a pot of cash is not relevant. I know you read the article, but you just can't stop with the very same irrelevant advice the article is pointing out is irrelevant.
  - zozbot123 8y ago
    > Already in debt and dodging bailiffs and debt collectors and intimidating loan-sharks, none of whom she has any chance of paying off. Okay, then maybe she should consider declaring personal bankruptcy and getting a clean start? There are some debts that cannot be discharged using bankruptcy, but they're not the sort of debt that f---s you over and that you have no chance in hell of paying off. Solutions are out there, she should use them.
    - EliRivers 8y ago
      Yet they don't. Why not? Why is your advice here not being taken?
      - brianpgordon 8y ago
        I think he has a point that you're assuming debt is the problem. It seems to me that she's just not being paid a living wage. If she's really struggling that much to make rent I would be surprised if anyone would give her credit at all, other than maybe short-term payday loans. And declaring bankruptcy every month doesn't help you avoid eviction.
        EliRivers 8y ago
jacoblambda 8y ago
I'm not the OP but I have a somewhat similar mindset. My advice isn't just "save up", it's the following. Look for a better paying job and scrape together every dime you can until then. Don't indulge in the burger or chips, spend that on making a massive pot of cheap hearty soup, stew, or gumbo that'll last you through the week. Bunker down and take free indulgences. (a free game or movie from a maybe less than official source on the internet if you have to) And when I say look for another job, I know that sounds like horrible advice but it is valid. Look for the physically demanding job with long hours. Mine was in a mushroom packaging plant. It was hard work for 60+ hours a week and most people gave up in less than 2 weeks but it was good consistent money. Places like that exist all around. On paper they look like low income with poor work conditions but overtime is extremely helpful when you work 60+ hours a week. Life is not by any means pleasant when you are poor but if you are as frugal as possible and know where to look you can almost always find a job that will leave you not always worrying about being able to pay the bills. Then you can start saving.
- EliRivers 8y ago
  This advice doesn't work for those who need childcare for those 60+ hours a week, those who simply don't have access to facilities to cook cheap gumbo (cheapest places don't have cooking facilities), those who cannot store gumbo for a week (fridges aren't free), those who don't happen to live within walking distance of such a job, and so on. There is a wealth of ways that healthy people with nothing but free time (to both work 60+ hours, AND to find that work; how did you pay for yourself while you were finding that work? Can everyone else use that same source of funding?) and access to basic facilities can help themselves. But once people fall so far that your advice is no longer applicable, and they find themselves living somewhere like the US, they're fucked permanently. A permanent underclass.
- rue 8y ago
  Could you, for a minute, consider that maybe your advice actually doesn’t apply or help? I know it’s a staggering thought, but give it a go.
jotm 8y ago
The article's conclusion is "yeah, forget trying, get that fast food, indulge in what makes you feel better about your shit circumstances" Which is the worst thing one can say. It's just a short term relief. If you plan on living, you need to NOT waste money AND always look for better opportunities. At the core, there's really three options: Advance (save more, learn more, to ultimately earn more), survive hoping there's no major personal disasters, or die. If you plan on living, it's best not to give into the easy choice. Also typical HN, discuss poverty and pat yourselves on the back for thinking about the poor (unlike those other cunts), while downvoting people with actual experience because it makes you feel bad. Waah, waah. Just fucking ban this account already, I don't even know why I'm here. Upvotes for everyone.
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