8 ms·
This is what I was expecting when I drove between Switzerland-Italy in 2016. Except I was stopped, told to park, had my passport examined with with a loupe, and
by FigBug 8y ago
This is what I was expecting when I drove between Switzerland-Italy in 2016. Except I was stopped, told to park, had my passport examined with with a loupe, and then was sent on my way. Are the borders back to normal now?
- toyg 8y agoProbably not. The Italian Northern border has been repeatedly “closed to Schengen” by neighbours because of the migration crisis. France, Switzerland and Austria basically keep suspending the treaty unilaterally whenever they feel like, as well as carrying out further abuses (like French Police illegally crossing the border and unloading migrants in a forest before driving back).
- mandelken 8y agoThey are not suspending the Schengen treaty, obviously. The treaty explicitly allows for temporary border controls. Crossing the border to offload migrants on the other hand is obviously illegal.
- toyg 8y agoHow temporary is "temporary"? The border near Ventimiglia has been basically extra-Schengen for more than 3 years. I believe the Austrian border is not that different, just slightly less popular.
- y4mi 8y ago> like French Police illegally crossing the border and unloading migrants in a forest before driving back Please tell me you have a source for that. / Edit It seems to have been a singular occurrence where two migrants were deported unofficially by French officers. Your phrasing made it sound like a regular occurrence of at least tens of migrants... But it is technically correct, I guess.
- coliveira 8y agoI don't know anything about this situation, but if the police was caught doing this once I have a strong guess that it is not so uncommon.
- toyg 8y agoThere is a single video but reports of multiple separate occasions in which it was done. The video was taken after the story had already broken on newspapers because the current Italian government officially raised it with France. Chances are that it had already happened several times, these things are usually kept quiet and dealt with diplomatically if they are occasional - unless one side is unresponsive and the abuse is repeated, which is probably what happened here. TBH it's not even the most high-profile case, the stuff at Ventimiglia (where France simply blocks most migrants) is pretty egregious too. The Brits do it as well in Calais, but at least they had the honesty of not signing the Schengen treaty to begin with.
- lucideer 8y agoA few countries have started to introduce this recently due to paranoia around Syrian refugees. It's extremely controversial, as it basically nullifies Schengen, but countries are apparently allowed by the agreement to put these spot checks in place (provided some political procedures) up to 20 out of every 60 days.
- jamiegreen 8y agoIs it paranoia, or just a sensible way for states to implement some semblance of control over their own border when a EU wide strategy seems out of reach?
- johannes1234321 8y agoIt is paranoia or rather political acting, since right next to the "controlled" borders there are smaller streets and paths without controlled border and there are multiple reports about those border officers not finding anything of relevance (from time to time they notice something like overloaded cars and those kind of offenses, but that's not a border protection issue, but regular police work)
- lucideer 8y agoIt's paranoia. In order to argue that it's sensible, you have to first demonstrate a disimprovement in affairs warranting a change in policy, and secondly show a causal link between "outsiders" that your border control is targeting and those disimprovements. Even if you could manage the former of those two (which I don't believe you could, though I might be mistaken), the latter is definitely not the case.
- Symbiote 8y agoI don't have any numbers, but I twice saw refugees "caught" at Malmö Hyllie station; the first station in Sweden and the official customs point for people arriving by train from Denmark. I only go to Malmö every 2-3 months, so at least for a while it may have been reasonable, given the aim of discovering refugees before they settle illegally somewhere.
- onetimemanytime 8y agoIIRC, they do random checks. 100 people don't get stopped, 1 does or whatever. Maybe random, maybe a hunch, maybe both.
- zaarn 8y agoRandom border checks are normal, even in Schengen, usually it's by Customs, sometimes it's highway/Autobahn police. Spotchecks are perfectly normal, though they've been elevated on some borders due to the refugee crisis (atleast in germany).
- FigBug 8y agoIf you live in the EU are you supposed to carry your passport whenever you move between countries?
- zaarn 8y agoAt least in Germany you have a legal duty to have a passport or ID card, if a police officer asks for one but you don't have it, you'll either be brought into the next police station (if you don't have a legal address) until it clears up or show up at your nearest police station within 24 hours or up to a week, depending on the situation. Though generally if you don't have it, you usually get an oral warning and have to, as mentioned, bring a valid document of identity to a police stations (sometimes not even that). Going directly to the station is very rare in my experience. Not having a document of identity at all is grounds for a fine of up to 3000€, though if you travel from outside the EU you'll have your travel passport anyway. Netherland and Portugal have a similar law. Austria has a similar law but only for non-austrian persons in Austria. When you cross borders, even in the EU, you should be prepared that you might get controlled/checked, it usually doesn't happen but it's good to be prepared.
- t0mas88 8y agoYes, Netherlands has this law, but the fine is around € 90 if you don't have it, not 3000.
- zaarn 8y agoI mentioned similar law, not same, the 3000 are also only if you don't have any passport or ID card at all. Like, you couldn't possibly show one. Not having it heavily depends on the situation, there are some where you may end up being fined.
- paglia_s 8y agoIt could have been that you got caught in the "random" checks applied after terrorist attacks or during the migration crisis but Switzerland is a weird case in that they're part of the Schengen area but not of the custom union. So for example, while between France and Italy there is literally no border station the border between Switzerland and other countries look like a normal border since they have to check goods. People shouldn't be subject to border checks but it happens
- isostatic 8y agoSwitzerland’s be in schengen, but there’s still differences in customs - need to declare dutiable good etc.
- prepend 8y agoThat happened to me between Switzerland and Germany in 2011. The French didn’t do anything when I drove from Switzerland to France.
- fyfy18 8y agoI crossed into Switzerland last year and people were randomly stopped and had their documents checked - it wasn't a border where you queue for hours, you just drive through and some people are flagged down. Technically at an EU level you don't need to have any ID to cross a Schengen border, but some countries have laws requiring visitors to carry ID at all times. (And of course you won't be let onboard a commercial flight without valid ID)
- thecopy 8y agoI am flying a lot in Europe, and have not had to show ID on any commercial flight except one time (Nice-Zurich – although i think i went into the wrong queue.) Sometimes i have realized afterwards that i did not even bring any ID.