4 ms·

American definitions of middle class seem to revolve around life goals and living standards. If you can afford to buy your own home and settle down with 2 kids,

American definitions of middle class seem to revolve around life goals and living standards. If you can afford to buy your own home and settle down with 2 kids, a dog, and at least one if not two cars, you're middle class. Elsewhere, middle class is more defined by the nature of your work. If you work with your hands, you're working class, skilled, semiskilled or unskilled. Doesn't mean you're poor - tradesmen earn a lot of money. But you're probably not reading a lot of books and aren't as likely to send your kids to college as have them go into a trade or early work too. Whereas people who have a life of the mind, in work and play, are middle class, as are professionals and managers. (Arguably software straddles the line; IMO it's closer to a trade, but it's so malleable and the potential scope so large it can affect society too.) Upper class is much more about social position than job or income. Who you know, who you're related to, who will take your call if you want to start a new project, or donate to your charity. Actually working for money is not upper class behaviour, it must be about some cause favourable to the social group.

mantas 8y ago
Nah. Here in eastern europe it's purely based on incomes. If you go paycheck-to-paycheck, you're working class. If you can afford a nice housing/kids/travel/etc, you're middle class. If you got a mansion w/ a gardener, you're probably upper class. Tradesman who makes €€€ can easily be considered middle class. Meanwhile if you're a poor kindergarten teacher... You'll probably be upper working class at best.
- barrkel 8y ago
  You're basically talking about income category rather than social class, at that point. Class is fundamentally about a kind of pecking order for judging appropriate company, a shorthand for determining if people will be able to relate to one another.
  - mantas 8y ago
    At least here, there's no separation between income category and social class. Either you make money or you don't. You feel special in some obscure way to claim you're upper class? Well, go hang that on your wall, nobody gives a fuck about it outside of your private circle where that paper translate into money or respect or whatever. If you want to talk education... Then there're smart people people who have no good manners. People who try to copy aristocratic manners but who're stupid as fuck. And lots of other combinations. But it's subjective at best. Nor most people care about that. I don't see how people could be sliced into "appropriate companies" in very few categories. At least that's how it goes over there. I could see how what you're saying might stand true with some blue-blood old-money. But even in countries like UK it's far from clear cut, at least in my experience.

mantas 8y ago

Nah. Here in eastern europe it's purely based on incomes. If you go paycheck-to-paycheck, you're working class. If you can afford a nice housing/kids/travel/etc, you're middle class. If you got a mansion w/ a gardener, you're probably upper class. Tradesman who makes €€€ can easily be considered middle class. Meanwhile if you're a poor kindergarten teacher... You'll probably be upper working class at best.

barrkel 8y ago
You're basically talking about income category rather than social class, at that point. Class is fundamentally about a kind of pecking order for judging appropriate company, a shorthand for determining if people will be able to relate to one another.
- mantas 8y ago
  At least here, there's no separation between income category and social class. Either you make money or you don't. You feel special in some obscure way to claim you're upper class? Well, go hang that on your wall, nobody gives a fuck about it outside of your private circle where that paper translate into money or respect or whatever. If you want to talk education... Then there're smart people people who have no good manners. People who try to copy aristocratic manners but who're stupid as fuck. And lots of other combinations. But it's subjective at best. Nor most people care about that. I don't see how people could be sliced into "appropriate companies" in very few categories. At least that's how it goes over there. I could see how what you're saying might stand true with some blue-blood old-money. But even in countries like UK it's far from clear cut, at least in my experience.