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We also need to suspect that no state will spend immense amounts of cash to build an expensive machine to chase supposed particles unless they can also develop

by nyc111 8y ago

We also need to suspect that no state will spend immense amounts of cash to build an expensive machine to chase supposed particles unless they can also develop and test militaryly useful technologies such as high vacuum technologies. CERN's website explicitely states that they are not about military technology but as per some post at HN recently we know that CERN officials can lie when it suits them. I'm not saying it's good or bad that they do military research if they do (after all internet came out of DARPA) but I'm saying that particle search may just be a cover and not their main purpose.

T-A 8y ago
Here's a list of CERN's member state, observers and non-members with cooperation agreements: https://home.cern/about/who-we-are/our-governance/member-states https://home.cern/about/who-we-are/our-governance/member-sta... It's basically every developed country on the planet, including US, Russia and China. And if you had ever visited CERN, you would know that anyone can go pretty much anywhere; the strongest deterrent you are likely to encounter are signs warning about possible radiation exposure. It's hard to imagine a worse place to try doing military research.
- nyc111 8y ago
  > It's hard to imagine a worse place to try doing military research. You are right of course. I don't mean overt military research. They can develop all kinds of high vacuum and laser technologies to search for elusive particles then it's trivial to turn that research into laser guns. But this is a guess. To me, you need to suspend disbelief to believe that a government, any government, will spend money to add few more particles to the Standard Model unless there is something in it for themselves. This is only a guess. I might be wrong.
  - T-A 8y ago
    It's a combination of two things: 1) Training facility for new engineers and scientists, most of whom will eventually leave academia for jobs (it is hoped) in the tax-paying sector. 2) Boondoggle to economically support contractors (because they hire large numbers of voters and/or fill an important function but suffer from uneven demand).

by nyc111 8y ago

T-A 8y ago

Here's a list of CERN's member state, observers and non-members with cooperation agreements: https://home.cern/about/who-we-are/our-governance/member-states https://home.cern/about/who-we-are/our-governance/member-sta... It's basically every developed country on the planet, including US, Russia and China. And if you had ever visited CERN, you would know that anyone can go pretty much anywhere; the strongest deterrent you are likely to encounter are signs warning about possible radiation exposure. It's hard to imagine a worse place to try doing military research.

nyc111 8y ago
> It's hard to imagine a worse place to try doing military research. You are right of course. I don't mean overt military research. They can develop all kinds of high vacuum and laser technologies to search for elusive particles then it's trivial to turn that research into laser guns. But this is a guess. To me, you need to suspend disbelief to believe that a government, any government, will spend money to add few more particles to the Standard Model unless there is something in it for themselves. This is only a guess. I might be wrong.
- T-A 8y ago
  It's a combination of two things: 1) Training facility for new engineers and scientists, most of whom will eventually leave academia for jobs (it is hoped) in the tax-paying sector. 2) Boondoggle to economically support contractors (because they hire large numbers of voters and/or fill an important function but suffer from uneven demand).