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"If you come at the king, you best not miss." If you criticize a seniors ideas, and they interpret it as you coming after them, you better destroy their reputa

"If you come at the king, you best not miss." If you criticize a seniors ideas, and they interpret it as you coming after them, you better destroy their reputation, or they'll destroy you. It's hard to destroy someones reputation within an organization, and most people get defensive when newcomers (especially juniors) come in with suggestions, so it's typically not worth kicking the nest.

Xcelerate 8y ago
> most people get defensive when newcomers (especially juniors) come in with suggestions Reminds me of that quote "science progresses one funeral at a one". I had a good boss at a previous company. Shortly after I was hired, he scheduled a meeting with the rest of the team and said, "We want to get your opinion on this thing X we've been working on for over a year. Since you're new, you may have some fresh perspectives about what can be done." I generally think that's the right approach. Judging by the number of systems in different fields that have been overhauled by outsiders to the field, I imagine real innovation has less to de what thinking of new ideas and more to do with navigating the minefield of human psychology.
- vezycash 8y ago
  "I want your opinion on...." for me is a potential landmine. Such questions can be used to detect potential troublemakers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Flowers_Campaign https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Flowers_Campaign In college 10 years+ ago, one of my roommates had a laptop with 500MB ram and took a 500MB ram chip from anther room mate's laptop to speed up a game he was playing. He did this without the knowledge or permission of the laptop's owner who was sleeping and forgot to put it back. Morning came, owner woke up to a laggy system. Discovered the cause and went straight to the culprit. Instead of an apology, he got insulted and reported to school authorities. Culprit panicked and threw his own ram into another room mate's locker - not knowing that rams have brand names and serial numbers. The owner refused the found chip and after a search, found it in the culprit's laptop. Case over right? Wrong! We all got called up to an office and asked, "Who do you think took it?" I naively answered with all the logical evidence. The "judge" accused me of slander. And warned me not to talk about it any longer or face disciplinary measures. I later discovered that the culprit's father visited the official and our meeting's true purpose was a coverup. In other words, be wary of higher-ups who ask for critique, advise, improvements, ideas...
  - 0db532a0 8y ago
    I’ve always been wary of one-to-ones with the manager for the same reason. Is it ever good to talk about problems with a manager, especially regarding other people? It’s like the prisoner’s dilemma. I still don’t know what’s best for me to talk about in this setting.
    - NateEag 8y ago
      If you have a good manager, yes, it can be. A good one will often have years more experience at navigating tricky social and political situations than you do and will be able to help you work through any difficulties you're having with coworkers. Good managers are far rarer than good programmers, though. A decent litmus test for whether your manager can help with these kinds of problems is whether they've been on lots of productive projects and whether everyone likes them. If both things are true, they likely are quite good at navigating interpersonal conflicts and arriving at win-win outcomes. It's nigh-impossible to achieve both those outcomes in a large organization otherwise.
      - 0db532a0 8y ago
        I’ve given up on the idea of good and bad people. I myself am good or bad depending on how it suits me. How could I do anything else? From my experience a manager will choose the option he thinks is most beneficial to his continued employment in the company. This includes maximising team support/influence over for instance making a change in a product with measurable benefit to the company, a change which even he himself might agree is a good idea. Who could blame him? Any manager who didn’t act in this way would surely be naive and idealistic. Assuming this is true for managers, what benefit could possibly be had from complaining about other colleagues. It could only serve to reduce his trust in me, and increase his fear that I would do the same to him. It is very difficult to balance things like team support, ensuring that I have interesting work to do and also ensuring continued employment. I have been too naive and idealistic, and now I am looking for a change of strategy. It’s all well and good to be aware of these realities, but much more difficult to put the conclusions into practice. Sometimes I think you’re just born with it.
wyldfire 8y ago
Or, better still -- keep looking until you find a team whose senior leaders have less fragile egos.

Xcelerate 8y ago

> most people get defensive when newcomers (especially juniors) come in with suggestions Reminds me of that quote "science progresses one funeral at a one". I had a good boss at a previous company. Shortly after I was hired, he scheduled a meeting with the rest of the team and said, "We want to get your opinion on this thing X we've been working on for over a year. Since you're new, you may have some fresh perspectives about what can be done." I generally think that's the right approach. Judging by the number of systems in different fields that have been overhauled by outsiders to the field, I imagine real innovation has less to de what thinking of new ideas and more to do with navigating the minefield of human psychology.

vezycash 8y ago
"I want your opinion on...." for me is a potential landmine. Such questions can be used to detect potential troublemakers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Flowers_Campaign https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Flowers_Campaign In college 10 years+ ago, one of my roommates had a laptop with 500MB ram and took a 500MB ram chip from anther room mate's laptop to speed up a game he was playing. He did this without the knowledge or permission of the laptop's owner who was sleeping and forgot to put it back. Morning came, owner woke up to a laggy system. Discovered the cause and went straight to the culprit. Instead of an apology, he got insulted and reported to school authorities. Culprit panicked and threw his own ram into another room mate's locker - not knowing that rams have brand names and serial numbers. The owner refused the found chip and after a search, found it in the culprit's laptop. Case over right? Wrong! We all got called up to an office and asked, "Who do you think took it?" I naively answered with all the logical evidence. The "judge" accused me of slander. And warned me not to talk about it any longer or face disciplinary measures. I later discovered that the culprit's father visited the official and our meeting's true purpose was a coverup. In other words, be wary of higher-ups who ask for critique, advise, improvements, ideas...
- 0db532a0 8y ago
  I’ve always been wary of one-to-ones with the manager for the same reason. Is it ever good to talk about problems with a manager, especially regarding other people? It’s like the prisoner’s dilemma. I still don’t know what’s best for me to talk about in this setting.
  - NateEag 8y ago
    If you have a good manager, yes, it can be. A good one will often have years more experience at navigating tricky social and political situations than you do and will be able to help you work through any difficulties you're having with coworkers. Good managers are far rarer than good programmers, though. A decent litmus test for whether your manager can help with these kinds of problems is whether they've been on lots of productive projects and whether everyone likes them. If both things are true, they likely are quite good at navigating interpersonal conflicts and arriving at win-win outcomes. It's nigh-impossible to achieve both those outcomes in a large organization otherwise.
    - 0db532a0 8y ago
      I’ve given up on the idea of good and bad people. I myself am good or bad depending on how it suits me. How could I do anything else? From my experience a manager will choose the option he thinks is most beneficial to his continued employment in the company. This includes maximising team support/influence over for instance making a change in a product with measurable benefit to the company, a change which even he himself might agree is a good idea. Who could blame him? Any manager who didn’t act in this way would surely be naive and idealistic. Assuming this is true for managers, what benefit could possibly be had from complaining about other colleagues. It could only serve to reduce his trust in me, and increase his fear that I would do the same to him. It is very difficult to balance things like team support, ensuring that I have interesting work to do and also ensuring continued employment. I have been too naive and idealistic, and now I am looking for a change of strategy. It’s all well and good to be aware of these realities, but much more difficult to put the conclusions into practice. Sometimes I think you’re just born with it.

wyldfire 8y ago

Or, better still -- keep looking until you find a team whose senior leaders have less fragile egos.