4 ms·

How is this not fraud? Fraud is a crime. If someone knowingly falsifies documents, does that void the protection given by the corporations offer of limited liab

How is this not fraud? Fraud is a crime. If someone knowingly falsifies documents, does that void the protection given by the corporations offer of limited liability?

mindslight 8y ago
Corporate liability protection is what you run into when you go up the management chain. When you go down the management chain, you end up at the "fall guy". The person who signed the falsified reports is likely in the second-lowest level of employees (the lowest level of management), who was ordered by the guy above him, who was pressured by the guy above him, who was incentivized by the guy above him, who was winked at by the guy above him, who concocted the scheme to please the guy above him, etc. Nobody really wants to see some low level employee's life ruined and his kids starve simply for being the dummy who accepted a promotion to sign the reports.
- bluejekyll 8y ago
  Yes, I agree, then it should fall on the CEO, who is responsible for signing off on all of this activity, like financials. You’re right that we don’t want the guys in the trucks getting busted for fraud, but that shouldn’t mean that we allow the upper management to get off.
  - int_19h 8y ago
    > You’re right that we don’t want the guys in the trucks getting busted for fraud If they knowingly participated in it, why not? In the military, where subordination is far stricter, there's still the concept of unlawful orders, and subordinates are expected to refuse to carry out such orders - and if they do not, they can be held accountable for that.
    - anticensor 8y ago
      Some militaries explicitly lack the concept of unlawful orders and surprise surprise - they are the least successful ones. Same thing also applies to businesses. If you do not have a complaint procedure, you acknowledge you are incompetent.

4 ms·

How is this not fraud? Fraud is a crime. If someone knowingly falsifies documents, does that void the protection given by the corporations offer of limited liab

by bluejekyll 8y ago

How is this not fraud? Fraud is a crime. If someone knowingly falsifies documents, does that void the protection given by the corporations offer of limited liability?

mindslight 8y ago
Corporate liability protection is what you run into when you go up the management chain. When you go down the management chain, you end up at the "fall guy". The person who signed the falsified reports is likely in the second-lowest level of employees (the lowest level of management), who was ordered by the guy above him, who was pressured by the guy above him, who was incentivized by the guy above him, who was winked at by the guy above him, who concocted the scheme to please the guy above him, etc. Nobody really wants to see some low level employee's life ruined and his kids starve simply for being the dummy who accepted a promotion to sign the reports.
- bluejekyll 8y ago
  Yes, I agree, then it should fall on the CEO, who is responsible for signing off on all of this activity, like financials. You’re right that we don’t want the guys in the trucks getting busted for fraud, but that shouldn’t mean that we allow the upper management to get off.
  - int_19h 8y ago
    > You’re right that we don’t want the guys in the trucks getting busted for fraud If they knowingly participated in it, why not? In the military, where subordination is far stricter, there's still the concept of unlawful orders, and subordinates are expected to refuse to carry out such orders - and if they do not, they can be held accountable for that.
    - anticensor 8y ago
      Some militaries explicitly lack the concept of unlawful orders and surprise surprise - they are the least successful ones. Same thing also applies to businesses. If you do not have a complaint procedure, you acknowledge you are incompetent.