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I agree with this. They are punishing those who are using fake CVs, falsifying data, fake resumes. We don’t have much of a problem here with that and it’s easy

I agree with this. They are punishing those who are using fake CVs, falsifying data, fake resumes. We don’t have much of a problem here with that and it’s easy to do solid background checks and ethics are just higher. In that environment this may be a great solution. They aren’t arresting or jailing anyone and this in my opinion is an ample threat to prevent would be borderline cheaters to think twice. There is far more temptation to cheat when money, job, promotion is on the line and you have no social welfare to fall back on. False scientific data worsens the country’s image and threatens lives etc. We have our own deep deep problems with research but that’s another discussion.

fouric 8y ago
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the entire "social credit" system completely opaque? As far as I know, there's no due process, trial, or opportunity for those being labeled with an offense (for to be "accused" implies that there is some transparency involved) to defend themselves. That, coupled with the Chinese government's abuse of the system to suppress their citizens (the system already penalizes you for merely suggesting that the government is imperfect) makes me think that it'll likely be used to e.g. punish those publishing papers that don't agree with the state narrative.
- rhegart 8y ago
  Oh you’re absolutely right about the punishing those who don’t agree with the state. But as of now they already do punish by sending them into a black cell disappearing forever. Xi has done this to anyone including multibillionaires and CCP highest ranking billionaires. When he was in charge of rooting out corruption, he went after enemies to shore up political support. A group of highly influential CCP elites wrote a letter disagreeing with the road to tyranny and I believe every one of them disappeared. I’m sure the system has abuses, I think it is opaque but not sure but I imagine beaurocrats will abuse it with petty grudges and bribes. Just in this case, I’m glad China is cracking down on scientific fraud and I prefer these measures to jail. I don’t think going against the state’s narrative for hard sciences is possible. For policy, sociology, history, I’m sure there is already an iron hand there with no room to wiggle.
  - owenversteeg 8y ago
    > A group of highly influential CCP elites wrote a letter disagreeing with the road to tyranny and I believe every one of them disappeared. I am extremely curious what this letter contained. Do you have any idea what it was called or any ideas on how to find it? Key words or a time frame or anything like that. (Not accusing you of making it up at all by the way, if it sounds like that.)
joejerryronnie 8y ago
First, they came for the scientific frauds . . .

fouric 8y ago

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the entire "social credit" system completely opaque? As far as I know, there's no due process, trial, or opportunity for those being labeled with an offense (for to be "accused" implies that there is some transparency involved) to defend themselves. That, coupled with the Chinese government's abuse of the system to suppress their citizens (the system already penalizes you for merely suggesting that the government is imperfect) makes me think that it'll likely be used to e.g. punish those publishing papers that don't agree with the state narrative.

rhegart 8y ago
Oh you’re absolutely right about the punishing those who don’t agree with the state. But as of now they already do punish by sending them into a black cell disappearing forever. Xi has done this to anyone including multibillionaires and CCP highest ranking billionaires. When he was in charge of rooting out corruption, he went after enemies to shore up political support. A group of highly influential CCP elites wrote a letter disagreeing with the road to tyranny and I believe every one of them disappeared. I’m sure the system has abuses, I think it is opaque but not sure but I imagine beaurocrats will abuse it with petty grudges and bribes. Just in this case, I’m glad China is cracking down on scientific fraud and I prefer these measures to jail. I don’t think going against the state’s narrative for hard sciences is possible. For policy, sociology, history, I’m sure there is already an iron hand there with no room to wiggle.
- owenversteeg 8y ago
  > A group of highly influential CCP elites wrote a letter disagreeing with the road to tyranny and I believe every one of them disappeared. I am extremely curious what this letter contained. Do you have any idea what it was called or any ideas on how to find it? Key words or a time frame or anything like that. (Not accusing you of making it up at all by the way, if it sounds like that.)

joejerryronnie 8y ago

First, they came for the scientific frauds . . .