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Sorry to hear of what you've been through > Now it's just a platform that reminds me of the past by forcing these "connections" It doesn't force those things.

danharaj 8y ago
I think it does.
- jamesrcole 8y ago
  "But when my parents, my abusers, added me on Facebook I felt obligated to add them due to pressure from family members and friends who don't get how the abuse affected me..." How did Facebook force them to add those people as friends?
  - danharaj 8y ago
    Because the structure of Facebook encourages those kinds of pressures. No, facebook the company did not force them at gunpoint to add their parents. That's correct. There are degrees of pressure, yes? If someone found them too much to put up with, is it unreasonable to accept the term 'forced' as apropos?
    - jamesrcole 8y ago
      Yes, it is unreasonable to call "encouraging" (your term) "forcing" ("forced" - "obtained or imposed by coercion or physical power" - Google's definition). [EDIT: to the people downvoting this, the subtleties of language matter. There is a big and specific difference between concepts like "encouraged", "presssured" and "forced"]
      - danharaj 8y ago
        You hold conversations with people, not dictionaries.
        jamesrcole 8y ago
        Are you saying that definition is not in line with what that term means in practice? What do you think "forced" means, if something quite different that?
        danharaj 8y ago
        Colloquially 'forced' is often used in a sense weaker than coercion. For example, a train delay might force you to take the bus. A move in Chess can be forced because all alternatives immediately lose. In this weaker sense, it might be taken as "left with no better option".
        jamesrcole 8y ago
        Yes, to force means to leave no alternative or option, and in this sense Facebook is not forcing those connections, and it's unreasonable to say it is forcing them.
        danharaj 8y ago
        So, in my examples, nothing forces you, in the strictest sense, to take the bus instead of walking. And in Chess nothing forces you in the strictest sense to not make a move that immediately loses. So perhaps loosen your grip and understand what the OP was saying?
      - EliRivers 8y ago
        "the subtleties of language matter", yet you're the one interpreting language like a robot with a dictionary.
        jamesrcole 8y ago
        Under the everyday notion of forcing someone to do something, Facebook is not forcing people to friend others. The definition I cited was for illustration. Since when does backing up you point with a definition mean you're being slavishly robotic? Since you're trying to imply my usage of the term is narrow and unrealistic, what's the different notion of "forcing" someone to do something that would make it true that Facebook is forcing people to friend others that they otherwise wouldn't want to?
        danso 8y ago
        I can't read the commenter's state of mind, but the word "forced" seems to be used colloquially/artfully, to portray what they personally and subjectively experience with Facebook, and not meant necessarily as an objective description of Facebook's feature/UI/UX. From a Facebook designer's point of view, the UI/UX most surely is intended to be "encouraging". But it may also be the case that for some users, the social dynamic may feel particularly oppressive.
        EliRivers 8y ago
        "trying to imply"? Hardly! I'm explicitly stating.
finaliteration 8y ago
Maybe "force" is too strong a word. However, it strongly pushes them by generating lists of people you may know even if you haven't talked to them in over a decade. It also makes it easier for someone to just click "Friend this person" rather than having to find someone's number and pick up the phone. Guilt is a strong motivator, as least for me, so granting someone that access makes it a lot more difficult to set appropriate boundaries.
- jamesrcole 8y ago
  It's up to you to accept a friend suggestion or request. And the UI makes it easy to delete any friend request. If there's pressure it comes from outside FB itself.
  - panarky 8y ago
    > If there's pressure it comes from outside FB itself When I was a kid, long before Facebook, my mom would frequently receive an anonymous chain letter in the mail. The letter would have some dramatic emotional appeal, or it would claim to be raising money for a poor family in the church, or it would promise pyramid riches, or it might have some mystical mumbo jumbo warning about breaking the chain. But in the end, the stories about heartbreak or helping people or mysterious calamities were complete horseshit. Their only purpose was to convince my mom to copy the letter and send it to 12 other people, thus expanding the base of the pyramid for the benefit of whoever started the chain letter. Facebook is the modern chain letter. Just like chain letters, Facebook has lots of horseshit stories about connecting people, with implied mysterious social consequences for not participating. But underneath all that, the real purpose of Facebook is to amplify social pressure to get people to expand the base of the pyramid for Facebook's benefit.
  - rhizome 8y ago
    I'm jealous that there's nobody in your past you'd rather not be reminded.
  - walterstucco 8y ago
    Not really If you delete a friend request people can send a new request The only option is to leave it there and be reminded you have new friend requests or delete the request and block the user It actually forces you to take action to block people you removed from your life long ago. It should work the other way around
needaccount 8y ago
I view FB as a negative force in the world but mostly not malicious. Although FB software doesn’t “force” any connection, as the comment above so well illustrates, there can be incredible social pressure enabled by FB to do something such as stay connected to an abuser. If you consider FB to be literally the software only, rather than the software plus community, then you may be technically correct. This IMO is a narrow and limited view of what companies and products are.
- jamesrcole 8y ago
  I'm saying no-one is being forced to friend anyone (whether by the software or the larger social context). To me there is a clear and significant difference between "pressuring" someone and "forcing" someone, and I'm honestly a bit baffled by why this simple (to me) and small point seems controversial in the subthread anchored in the grandparent comment.
kerng 8y ago
It also reminds you at the most inappropriate times about people either via "people you might know" and other annoyances on whom you should be connected with. These unwanted reminders can certainly create unwanted distress.
- jamesrcole 8y ago
  Absolutely. But I was just making the point that what they were describing wasn't a case of it forcing them to friend those people.
  - kerng 8y ago
    Yeah, force might be a strong word but I think for some it indeed creates social pressure and fear of repercussion if they dont friend people they "should be" connected with because of social structures, etc.

danharaj 8y ago

I think it does.

jamesrcole 8y ago
"But when my parents, my abusers, added me on Facebook I felt obligated to add them due to pressure from family members and friends who don't get how the abuse affected me..." How did Facebook force them to add those people as friends?
- danharaj 8y ago
  Because the structure of Facebook encourages those kinds of pressures. No, facebook the company did not force them at gunpoint to add their parents. That's correct. There are degrees of pressure, yes? If someone found them too much to put up with, is it unreasonable to accept the term 'forced' as apropos?
  - jamesrcole 8y ago
    Yes, it is unreasonable to call "encouraging" (your term) "forcing" ("forced" - "obtained or imposed by coercion or physical power" - Google's definition). [EDIT: to the people downvoting this, the subtleties of language matter. There is a big and specific difference between concepts like "encouraged", "presssured" and "forced"]
    - danharaj 8y ago
      You hold conversations with people, not dictionaries.
      - jamesrcole 8y ago
        Are you saying that definition is not in line with what that term means in practice? What do you think "forced" means, if something quite different that?
        danharaj 8y ago
        Colloquially 'forced' is often used in a sense weaker than coercion. For example, a train delay might force you to take the bus. A move in Chess can be forced because all alternatives immediately lose. In this weaker sense, it might be taken as "left with no better option".
        jamesrcole 8y ago
        Yes, to force means to leave no alternative or option, and in this sense Facebook is not forcing those connections, and it's unreasonable to say it is forcing them.
        danharaj 8y ago
        So, in my examples, nothing forces you, in the strictest sense, to take the bus instead of walking. And in Chess nothing forces you in the strictest sense to not make a move that immediately loses. So perhaps loosen your grip and understand what the OP was saying?
    - EliRivers 8y ago
      "the subtleties of language matter", yet you're the one interpreting language like a robot with a dictionary.
      - jamesrcole 8y ago
        Under the everyday notion of forcing someone to do something, Facebook is not forcing people to friend others. The definition I cited was for illustration. Since when does backing up you point with a definition mean you're being slavishly robotic? Since you're trying to imply my usage of the term is narrow and unrealistic, what's the different notion of "forcing" someone to do something that would make it true that Facebook is forcing people to friend others that they otherwise wouldn't want to?
        danso 8y ago
        I can't read the commenter's state of mind, but the word "forced" seems to be used colloquially/artfully, to portray what they personally and subjectively experience with Facebook, and not meant necessarily as an objective description of Facebook's feature/UI/UX. From a Facebook designer's point of view, the UI/UX most surely is intended to be "encouraging". But it may also be the case that for some users, the social dynamic may feel particularly oppressive.
        EliRivers 8y ago
        "trying to imply"? Hardly! I'm explicitly stating.

finaliteration 8y ago

Maybe "force" is too strong a word. However, it strongly pushes them by generating lists of people you may know even if you haven't talked to them in over a decade. It also makes it easier for someone to just click "Friend this person" rather than having to find someone's number and pick up the phone. Guilt is a strong motivator, as least for me, so granting someone that access makes it a lot more difficult to set appropriate boundaries.

jamesrcole 8y ago
It's up to you to accept a friend suggestion or request. And the UI makes it easy to delete any friend request. If there's pressure it comes from outside FB itself.
- panarky 8y ago
  > If there's pressure it comes from outside FB itself When I was a kid, long before Facebook, my mom would frequently receive an anonymous chain letter in the mail. The letter would have some dramatic emotional appeal, or it would claim to be raising money for a poor family in the church, or it would promise pyramid riches, or it might have some mystical mumbo jumbo warning about breaking the chain. But in the end, the stories about heartbreak or helping people or mysterious calamities were complete horseshit. Their only purpose was to convince my mom to copy the letter and send it to 12 other people, thus expanding the base of the pyramid for the benefit of whoever started the chain letter. Facebook is the modern chain letter. Just like chain letters, Facebook has lots of horseshit stories about connecting people, with implied mysterious social consequences for not participating. But underneath all that, the real purpose of Facebook is to amplify social pressure to get people to expand the base of the pyramid for Facebook's benefit.
- rhizome 8y ago
  I'm jealous that there's nobody in your past you'd rather not be reminded.
- walterstucco 8y ago
  Not really If you delete a friend request people can send a new request The only option is to leave it there and be reminded you have new friend requests or delete the request and block the user It actually forces you to take action to block people you removed from your life long ago. It should work the other way around

needaccount 8y ago

I view FB as a negative force in the world but mostly not malicious. Although FB software doesn’t “force” any connection, as the comment above so well illustrates, there can be incredible social pressure enabled by FB to do something such as stay connected to an abuser. If you consider FB to be literally the software only, rather than the software plus community, then you may be technically correct. This IMO is a narrow and limited view of what companies and products are.

jamesrcole 8y ago
I'm saying no-one is being forced to friend anyone (whether by the software or the larger social context). To me there is a clear and significant difference between "pressuring" someone and "forcing" someone, and I'm honestly a bit baffled by why this simple (to me) and small point seems controversial in the subthread anchored in the grandparent comment.

kerng 8y ago

It also reminds you at the most inappropriate times about people either via "people you might know" and other annoyances on whom you should be connected with. These unwanted reminders can certainly create unwanted distress.

jamesrcole 8y ago
Absolutely. But I was just making the point that what they were describing wasn't a case of it forcing them to friend those people.
- kerng 8y ago
  Yeah, force might be a strong word but I think for some it indeed creates social pressure and fear of repercussion if they dont friend people they "should be" connected with because of social structures, etc.