3 ms·
I agree that the naming of the non-open-source licenses is confusing, e.g. "commons clause" is not a great name. However, I wonder if there is in fact a fundam
by chubot 8y ago
I agree that the naming of the non-open-source licenses is confusing, e.g. "commons clause" is not a great name.
However, I wonder if there is in fact a fundamental difference between some kinds of reuse and others (thinking aloud here).
If I want to use Debian to power my corporate desktops, that's one thing. Or if I want run Debian on cloud machines that provide a Redis service.
But if I actually expose the Redis API and protocol through a service to customers, and charge them for it, can that be considered another form of reuse that requires licensing?
This is in contrast to running Redis as a backend for say a for-profit Twitter clone.
Using Debian, the analogy would be providing a remote-desktop-as-a-service using Debian, as opposed to merely using Debian in a cloud service.
-----
Although, I may have missed it -- why not make Redis AGPL? That would prevent proprietary forks, as I understand it. But they want something even stronger than that? They don't want just a level playing field, but an advantage?
I suppose I can understand that when you are faced with big cloud providers with tons of locked-in customers.
I'm surprised that Cantrill isn't more sympathetic to the business model problems and the lock-in effects of big cloud providers. He seems to take a pretty hard line that the "community" comes first. But what if there's no real community? Is there a community around CockroachDB? It seems to be mainly for for-profit companies to run cloud services.
-----
In other words I think there could be another name for software where you have rights to view, modify, and distribute the source, but not to directly sell it as a service.
He is saying that nobody is ever going to license this software -- they will just reimplement it or use something else. But I think that is besides the point, which is that there are customers who WOULD pay for a hosted version of Redis or CockroachDB.
I guess where this falls down is that it only works for projects in which there have been essentially no external contributors. Although a few people may have contributed the lion's share of the code, it's not clear that you should reserve rights for author A's company but not author B's company, even author B only contributed 10 lines of code. It is hard to draw that line.
- mnutt 8y agoFor me, it's hard to separate "Cloud provider selling a service" and "Cloud provider selling compute, and giving away the free service". On a scale of things that are ok to things that are not ok to open source companies: 1) end-user rents an ec2 server, installs redis themselves, 2) end-user rents an ec2 server, runs a redis AMI that a third party created, 3) same, except amazon created the AMI, 4) Amazon runs an ec2 instance on the user's behalf, puts a nice UI on top for "spin up a redis server", 5) Amazon runs an opaque multi-tenant redis system. Where do you draw the line? Most steps are just Amazon streamlining letting the user run the service, except for the last one which decreases the cost for the end-user.
- chubot 8y agoYeah, that's a good way of putting it. I agree there is no hard line. I would put it somewhere between #3 and #5. On the other hand, there are plenty of legal/licensing issues that rely on fine distinctions. Just in the domain of software: is it OK to copy 1 line of code, 10 lines of code, or 100 lines of code? What about if you transliterate the code to a different language? It's possible that the fuzzy distinctions are OK and they still roughly preserve the intent and business model.