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You've missed the wonders of socialism. https://polishforums.com/history/food-stamps-communist-era-64898/ https://polishforums.com/history/food-stamps-communis

You've missed the wonders of socialism. https://polishforums.com/history/food-stamps-communist-era-64898/ https://polishforums.com/history/food-stamps-communist-era-6... Edit (for the down voters): I observed these "wonders" first-hand, since I grew up in the Eastern Bloc.

briandear 8y ago
Why the hell is this being downvoted? The link you provided is a facinating extension of the topic at hand. That you are criticizing socialism on HN is the real reason for the downvotes. There is a distinct group that is anti-capitalism and apparently have never lived under the oppression that was the Warsaw Pact or the Soviet Union, Venezuela or Cuba. And ironically, this is Hacker News — a forum originally started to discuss startups and sponsored by a venture capital company, about as non-socialist as it gets. Thanks for posting the link; reading that thread was very interesting.
- mikeash 8y ago
  Socialism is a wide category that includes things that are wildly different from Eastern European communism. It’s like sarcastically saying “the wonders of capitalism” when talking about a 19th century workhouse filled with laboring children.
  - greywolf 8y ago
    socialism is a total f'ing disgrace. you are completely lost if you believe otherwise.
- shaki-dora 8y ago
  It’s downvoted for the same sort of tired ideological jingoism your post engages in.
alistairSH 8y ago
I imagine the downvotes are for your generic use of "socialism" instead of a more descriptive "Eastern Bloc Communism" or similar. Socialism can be implemented in many ways, just as capitalism can. But, your point still stands. The flavor of socialism encountered in the Eastern Bloc from post-WWII to the 90s was by all accounts completely dysfunctional.
- whatshisface 8y ago
  >just as capitalism can I disagree with that statement, because capitalism is just a market and markets arise and behave the exact same way whenever and wherever they are allowed to. "Implementing capitalism" isn't a thing you do: it means that you stop doing something (suppressing market activity).
  - baursak 8y ago
    Markets existed long before capitalism. So saying "capitalism is just a market" is just plainly incorrect.
    - whatshisface 8y ago
      Markets couldn't have existed before capitalism, because capitalism is just a market.
      - baursak 8y ago
        Capitalism developed within the past 400 years or so. Markets existed for millenia. I don't want to sound rude, but these are just basic facts.
- repolfx 8y ago
  But in what ways is it implemented that doesn't lead to this? Most countries with material wealth that are advertised as being "socialist" or "social democratic" are actually bog standard capitalism, perhaps with a marginally better funded welfare system than average.
  - int_19h 8y ago
    One way to implement socialism is to simply withdraw protection for private (as opposed to personal) property on state level. A subset of that is to get rid of the state altogether, which obviously withdraws all protections that state might provide. Capitalism requires the ability to own and accumulate capital, but that only works if you can rely on the security of what you already own - and if society refuses to recognize your ownership, it's pretty hard. Or one could go further and actively prosecute people who try to do anything "capitalistic" (e.g. offer services for pay). That is the model that USSR, and all countries in its sphere of influence, used.

briandear 8y ago

Why the hell is this being downvoted? The link you provided is a facinating extension of the topic at hand. That you are criticizing socialism on HN is the real reason for the downvotes. There is a distinct group that is anti-capitalism and apparently have never lived under the oppression that was the Warsaw Pact or the Soviet Union, Venezuela or Cuba. And ironically, this is Hacker News — a forum originally started to discuss startups and sponsored by a venture capital company, about as non-socialist as it gets. Thanks for posting the link; reading that thread was very interesting.

mikeash 8y ago
Socialism is a wide category that includes things that are wildly different from Eastern European communism. It’s like sarcastically saying “the wonders of capitalism” when talking about a 19th century workhouse filled with laboring children.
- greywolf 8y ago
  socialism is a total f'ing disgrace. you are completely lost if you believe otherwise.
shaki-dora 8y ago
It’s downvoted for the same sort of tired ideological jingoism your post engages in.

alistairSH 8y ago

I imagine the downvotes are for your generic use of "socialism" instead of a more descriptive "Eastern Bloc Communism" or similar. Socialism can be implemented in many ways, just as capitalism can. But, your point still stands. The flavor of socialism encountered in the Eastern Bloc from post-WWII to the 90s was by all accounts completely dysfunctional.

whatshisface 8y ago
>just as capitalism can I disagree with that statement, because capitalism is just a market and markets arise and behave the exact same way whenever and wherever they are allowed to. "Implementing capitalism" isn't a thing you do: it means that you stop doing something (suppressing market activity).
- baursak 8y ago
  Markets existed long before capitalism. So saying "capitalism is just a market" is just plainly incorrect.
  - whatshisface 8y ago
    Markets couldn't have existed before capitalism, because capitalism is just a market.
    - baursak 8y ago
      Capitalism developed within the past 400 years or so. Markets existed for millenia. I don't want to sound rude, but these are just basic facts.
repolfx 8y ago
But in what ways is it implemented that doesn't lead to this? Most countries with material wealth that are advertised as being "socialist" or "social democratic" are actually bog standard capitalism, perhaps with a marginally better funded welfare system than average.
- int_19h 8y ago
  One way to implement socialism is to simply withdraw protection for private (as opposed to personal) property on state level. A subset of that is to get rid of the state altogether, which obviously withdraws all protections that state might provide. Capitalism requires the ability to own and accumulate capital, but that only works if you can rely on the security of what you already own - and if society refuses to recognize your ownership, it's pretty hard. Or one could go further and actively prosecute people who try to do anything "capitalistic" (e.g. offer services for pay). That is the model that USSR, and all countries in its sphere of influence, used.