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> ask one of my friends in other universities if I wanted a paper badly Surely, you see the problem here?

by fyrabanks 8y ago

Larrikin 8y ago
That would only be a problem if sci-hub also didn't exist
- fyrabanks 8y ago
  First of all, piracy is a workaround and not a legitimate solution to any problem. Second, it doesn't solve the root issue here--somebody has to have paid the inflated cost of an Elsevier subscription. Sci-hub doesn't exist in a vacuum.
  - stickfigure 8y ago
    piracy is a workaround and not a legitimate solution Why not? Piracy is a problem for content generation because somebody needs to get paid to generate the content. Elsevier does not generate content, it's a (parasitic?) gatekeeper using network effects to extract rents. If content generation would be healthier and more vibrant without Elsevier, then piracy seems an appropriate and just solution. I don't see content creators lining up to defend Elsevier; quite the opposite. (It's possible that someone could argue that Elsevier adds significant value for their cut, but I haven't heard anyone make that claim)
  - betterunix2 8y ago
    Why is it not a legitimate solution? Sometimes laws fail to catch up with technology, and copyright is a good example of that. Copyright law is based on the assumption that mass distribution is an industrial activity; today mass distribution can be done by ordinary people using common tools that we carry in our pockets. I get the idea that skirting the law is not something we should generally encourage as the solution, but let's not get carried away and act like copyrights are some divine commandment and grad students using scihub are a bunch of evildoers.
tzakrajs 8y ago
Maybe it is a self correcting problem. Perhaps the moment Elsevier is so out of vogue that you can’t find a library or peer at another university with access is also the inflection point where Elsevier loses its network effect. Why would you license your work to a journal for which your peers and their institutions have no direct access?
- fyrabanks 8y ago
  If it were ever to reach that point, sure, I'll give you that.

> ask one of my friends in other universities if I wanted a paper badly Surely, you see the problem here?

Larrikin 8y ago

That would only be a problem if sci-hub also didn't exist

fyrabanks 8y ago
First of all, piracy is a workaround and not a legitimate solution to any problem. Second, it doesn't solve the root issue here--somebody has to have paid the inflated cost of an Elsevier subscription. Sci-hub doesn't exist in a vacuum.
- stickfigure 8y ago
  piracy is a workaround and not a legitimate solution Why not? Piracy is a problem for content generation because somebody needs to get paid to generate the content. Elsevier does not generate content, it's a (parasitic?) gatekeeper using network effects to extract rents. If content generation would be healthier and more vibrant without Elsevier, then piracy seems an appropriate and just solution. I don't see content creators lining up to defend Elsevier; quite the opposite. (It's possible that someone could argue that Elsevier adds significant value for their cut, but I haven't heard anyone make that claim)
- betterunix2 8y ago
  Why is it not a legitimate solution? Sometimes laws fail to catch up with technology, and copyright is a good example of that. Copyright law is based on the assumption that mass distribution is an industrial activity; today mass distribution can be done by ordinary people using common tools that we carry in our pockets. I get the idea that skirting the law is not something we should generally encourage as the solution, but let's not get carried away and act like copyrights are some divine commandment and grad students using scihub are a bunch of evildoers.

tzakrajs 8y ago

Maybe it is a self correcting problem. Perhaps the moment Elsevier is so out of vogue that you can’t find a library or peer at another university with access is also the inflection point where Elsevier loses its network effect. Why would you license your work to a journal for which your peers and their institutions have no direct access?

fyrabanks 8y ago
If it were ever to reach that point, sure, I'll give you that.