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@snowden sold us out to china when he fled in 2013, by revealing details about our spying operation on them. apparently they bolstered their defenses after thi

@snowden sold us out to china when he fled in 2013, by revealing details about our spying operation on them. apparently they bolstered their defenses after this, due to this information, meanwhile stepping up offensive attacks against the United States

rhegart 8y ago
According to the NYTimes they also killed over a 100 CIA assets in China. So we went in the dark for a while as the whole batch was compromised. We didn’t retaliate either. The Snowden thing wasn’t the cause of that but I bet the Snowden thing compromised other assets.
- wybiral 8y ago
  It's interesting how much people still talk about metadata collection (protected behind the requirement of itemized FISA court approval) because "big mean US is evil" while ignoring events like this.
  - vkou 8y ago
    Events like what? That people committing capital crimes for money are being caught, and convicted of... Said capital crimes? If you don't want to do the time, don't do the crime. You don't just stumble into being an informant for a foreign power.
    - wybiral 8y ago
      > Events like what? Killing dozens of people in secret without a proper trial. And the fact that it isn't an uncommon occurrence.
      - clubm8 8y ago
        >Killing dozens of people in secret without a proper trial. To be fair, they also executed some of them in public ;) https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/20/world/asia/china-cia-spies-espionage.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/20/world/asia/china-cia-spie... >From the final weeks of 2010 through the end of 2012, according to former American officials, the Chinese killed at least a dozen of the C.I.A.’s sources. According to three of the officials, one was shot in front of his colleagues in the courtyard of a government building — a message to others who might have been working for the C.I.A.
      - boomboomsubban 8y ago
        So like the disposition matrix? Except they aren't also killing thousands of innocents that just happen to be near the person being killed?
mindslight 8y ago
It seems like that is more appropriately attributed to USG's persecution of whistleblowers. I'd bet that Snowden would rather have not fled the US, but he did not have that option. You can't build on a broken foundation - exposing domestic anticonstitutional corruption is more important than the fallout to foreign policy.
- psychedictic 8y ago
  Your comment temporally corresponded with multiple simultaneous downvotes of my comment. There's no justification at all for informing any of our adversaries of details related to spying activity on them. Intentional or not, Mr. snowden's action have hurt USA.
  - mindslight 8y ago
    > There's no justification at all for informing any of our adversaries of details related to spying activity on them. Even under pain of imprisonment and torture? Everyone has their limits. > Mr. snowden's action have hurt USA. Only if you believe that "USA" is equivalent to the "US Government". If you believe that the United States means something more, like perhaps a society founded on individual rights, equal protection under the rule of law, and a government constrained by its charter, then blowing the whistle on the domestic enemies in Maryland is extremely helpful.
    - psychedictic 8y ago
      Nonsense. @snowden could have chosen to not told our adversaries about any spying activity upon them. Instead, he stole classified info that was far beyond the scope of domestic surveillance, in a pre-meditated way, then shared this with our adversaries. "domestic enemies in Maryland" is entirely your opinion. Are you an American citizen? What exactly is your justification (beyond Hollywood propaganda, news articles, etc) for such a claim? Have you reviewed in detail what @snowden (and his co-conspirators) have leaked? How much was actually related to domestic surveillance? How much was classified military intel?

rhegart 8y ago

According to the NYTimes they also killed over a 100 CIA assets in China. So we went in the dark for a while as the whole batch was compromised. We didn’t retaliate either. The Snowden thing wasn’t the cause of that but I bet the Snowden thing compromised other assets.

wybiral 8y ago
It's interesting how much people still talk about metadata collection (protected behind the requirement of itemized FISA court approval) because "big mean US is evil" while ignoring events like this.
- vkou 8y ago
  Events like what? That people committing capital crimes for money are being caught, and convicted of... Said capital crimes? If you don't want to do the time, don't do the crime. You don't just stumble into being an informant for a foreign power.
  - wybiral 8y ago
    > Events like what? Killing dozens of people in secret without a proper trial. And the fact that it isn't an uncommon occurrence.
    - clubm8 8y ago
      >Killing dozens of people in secret without a proper trial. To be fair, they also executed some of them in public ;) https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/20/world/asia/china-cia-spies-espionage.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/20/world/asia/china-cia-spie... >From the final weeks of 2010 through the end of 2012, according to former American officials, the Chinese killed at least a dozen of the C.I.A.’s sources. According to three of the officials, one was shot in front of his colleagues in the courtyard of a government building — a message to others who might have been working for the C.I.A.
    - boomboomsubban 8y ago
      So like the disposition matrix? Except they aren't also killing thousands of innocents that just happen to be near the person being killed?

mindslight 8y ago

It seems like that is more appropriately attributed to USG's persecution of whistleblowers. I'd bet that Snowden would rather have not fled the US, but he did not have that option. You can't build on a broken foundation - exposing domestic anticonstitutional corruption is more important than the fallout to foreign policy.

psychedictic 8y ago
Your comment temporally corresponded with multiple simultaneous downvotes of my comment. There's no justification at all for informing any of our adversaries of details related to spying activity on them. Intentional or not, Mr. snowden's action have hurt USA.
- mindslight 8y ago
  > There's no justification at all for informing any of our adversaries of details related to spying activity on them. Even under pain of imprisonment and torture? Everyone has their limits. > Mr. snowden's action have hurt USA. Only if you believe that "USA" is equivalent to the "US Government". If you believe that the United States means something more, like perhaps a society founded on individual rights, equal protection under the rule of law, and a government constrained by its charter, then blowing the whistle on the domestic enemies in Maryland is extremely helpful.
  - psychedictic 8y ago
    Nonsense. @snowden could have chosen to not told our adversaries about any spying activity upon them. Instead, he stole classified info that was far beyond the scope of domestic surveillance, in a pre-meditated way, then shared this with our adversaries. "domestic enemies in Maryland" is entirely your opinion. Are you an American citizen? What exactly is your justification (beyond Hollywood propaganda, news articles, etc) for such a claim? Have you reviewed in detail what @snowden (and his co-conspirators) have leaked? How much was actually related to domestic surveillance? How much was classified military intel?