5 ms·

The LLVM Compiler Infrastructure

saagarjha 8y ago
> The name "LLVM" itself is not an acronym; it is the full name of the project. What happened to Lower-Level Virtual Machine?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- cornstalks 8y ago
  From Chris Lattner (http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2011-December/046445.html http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2011-December/04644...): > "LLVM" is officially no longer an acronym. The acronym it once expanded too was confusing, and inappropriate almost from day 1. :) As LLVM has grown to encompass other subprojects, it became even less useful and meaningless. > In short, it is just "The LLVM Project", and LLVM doesn't stand for anything anymore. It is a nice short domain name though
  - stdplaceholder 8y ago
    It wasn't ever an acronym. It was an initialism.
- nsstring96 8y ago
  I think that originally, it was indeed supposed to be an optimizing virtual machine. IIRC, Lattner's PhD thesis might have been about it.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    Masters, I believe: http://llvm.org/pubs/2002-12-LattnerMSThesis.html http://llvm.org/pubs/2002-12-LattnerMSThesis.html
  - jcranmer 8y ago
    LLVM was always intended to be a compiler IR rather than a "JIT for C", and the "virtual machine" in the name was named as much to refer to the idea that it's a more direct model of an instantiation of the C abstract machine as any actual ability to perform dynamic optimization. The big push LLVM made early on was on being able to do ahead-of-time, runtime, and idle-time optimization; the latter of which is mostly reflected in profile-guided optimization. The poor quality of its dynamic optimization [1] and the general reluctance to use profile-guided optimization means that LLVM ended up focusing hard on optimizing ahead-of-time like traditional C compilers. The fact that people got too easily confused about what LLVM actually did caused Lattner to de-acronymize it officially several years ago. [1] A more difficult problem for C and C++ is that actually collecting enough of the code in a single IR representation is surprisingly hard, as build systems are completely and totally inane, and that's before you start trying to figure out how to glue in things like assembly files or glibc.
- monocasa 8y ago
  Its current tradeoffs make more sense as a offline compiler than a traditional virtual machine compiler. Best case for using LLVM in a VM is a last tier compilation that's supposed to approach offline compilation. But even projects that have done that like JavaScriptCore have ended up replacing LLVM with their own backend.
jclay 8y ago
For those who haven't explored LLVM, it's an incredibly powerful technology and rather approachable for getting started with. A few of my favorite LLVM discoveries: - If you want to build Clang (LLVM C/C++ Compiler), it's really simple to pull down and build with little external development tooling (only a compiler and CMake). Shown here [0]. - You can pull LLVM/Clang master and use that for a "bleeding-edge" toolchain with a high degree of stability. [0]. - Clang is used to compile Chromium and Firefox on all platforms. Both have seen great performance gains from Clang's link time optimization. [1] [2] - Klee is built on LLVM infrastructure and is used for automatic generation of test cases. [3] See some of their papers for how powerful their results are. - Clang can now produce ABI compatible binaries with MSVC and has support for the Visual Studio debugger. [4] - Lots of interesting research projects leveraging LLVM [5] [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZI_Qla4pNA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZI_Qla4pNA [1] http://blog.llvm.org/2018/03/clang-is-now-used-to-build-chrome-for.html http://blog.llvm.org/2018/03/clang-is-now-used-to-build-chro... [2] https://glandium.org/blog/?p=3888 https://glandium.org/blog/?p=3888 [3] https://klee.github.io https://klee.github.io [4] http://blog.llvm.org/2017/08/llvm-on-windows-now-supports-pdb-debug.html http://blog.llvm.org/2017/08/llvm-on-windows-now-supports-pd... [5] https://scholar.google.com/scholar?as_ylo=2017&q=LLVM&hl=en&as_sdt=0,33 https://scholar.google.com/scholar?as_ylo=2017&q=LLVM&hl=en&...
- jclay 8y ago
  My list is mostly C++ focused, but the LLVM tooling for clang-tidy/clang-query is also worth a mention. There are a big set of refactors that you can apply across your codebase if you wanted to migrate to new C++ features for example. You can also write your own if you wanted to refactor to use the API of an updated dependency for example. It's a lower-level version of Javascript's "codemods" for C/C++. There's some work being done to build some tooling around interactively creating AST matchers and applying refactors across an entire codebase. [0] [0] https://steveire.wordpress.com/2018/11/11/future-developments-in-clang-query/ https://steveire.wordpress.com/2018/11/11/future-development...
- eslaught 8y ago
  Klee is also a great example of the cost of LLVM's never-backwards-compatible approach: according to their home page, the stable release of Klee runs on 3.4 and 3.8 is "experimental". (The LLVM releases since then have included: 3.9, 4.0, 5.0, 6.0, and 7.0.) Don't get me wrong, LLVM is great, but I really wish that as the project matured they had made more of an effort to provide some level of compatibility. As it is, it's a massive pain for open source projects to follow along.
tanin 8y ago
LLVM is a great project. I'm writing a programming language based on it. It is so much easier because: (1) it's easier than writing machine code translation and (2) it's also easier than translating your code to C which would be purely textual. Nevertheless, it's difficult to learn for people coming from high-level languages, even for me, who knows C to some degree. The documentation around IR is scarce. Then, I've stumbled upon a trick where I can just write C code and compile to LLVM IR with Clang. With this trick, I can answer many questions on my own (e.g. how to implement if-else, how to call printf, how to make a dynamic-sized array.)
- pnloyd 8y ago
  That last tip is so clever! I'll have to remember that if I ever want to undergo such a project.
- jclay 8y ago
  Nice tip! I've also been watching the Godbolt.org progress improving LLVM IR support which could also be helpful for interactively exploring IR generation. The results are pretty good today if you select Clang compiler and pass `-emit-llvm` flag.
  - tanin 8y ago
    That's exactly what I have been doing `clang -S --emit-llvm <filename>`. Godbolt.org is even more handy!

> The name "LLVM" itself is not an acronym; it is the full name of the project. What happened to Lower-Level Virtual Machine?

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
cornstalks 8y ago
From Chris Lattner (http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2011-December/046445.html http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2011-December/04644...): > "LLVM" is officially no longer an acronym. The acronym it once expanded too was confusing, and inappropriate almost from day 1. :) As LLVM has grown to encompass other subprojects, it became even less useful and meaningless. > In short, it is just "The LLVM Project", and LLVM doesn't stand for anything anymore. It is a nice short domain name though
- stdplaceholder 8y ago
  It wasn't ever an acronym. It was an initialism.
nsstring96 8y ago
I think that originally, it was indeed supposed to be an optimizing virtual machine. IIRC, Lattner's PhD thesis might have been about it.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  Masters, I believe: http://llvm.org/pubs/2002-12-LattnerMSThesis.html http://llvm.org/pubs/2002-12-LattnerMSThesis.html
- jcranmer 8y ago
  LLVM was always intended to be a compiler IR rather than a "JIT for C", and the "virtual machine" in the name was named as much to refer to the idea that it's a more direct model of an instantiation of the C abstract machine as any actual ability to perform dynamic optimization. The big push LLVM made early on was on being able to do ahead-of-time, runtime, and idle-time optimization; the latter of which is mostly reflected in profile-guided optimization. The poor quality of its dynamic optimization [1] and the general reluctance to use profile-guided optimization means that LLVM ended up focusing hard on optimizing ahead-of-time like traditional C compilers. The fact that people got too easily confused about what LLVM actually did caused Lattner to de-acronymize it officially several years ago. [1] A more difficult problem for C and C++ is that actually collecting enough of the code in a single IR representation is surprisingly hard, as build systems are completely and totally inane, and that's before you start trying to figure out how to glue in things like assembly files or glibc.
monocasa 8y ago
Its current tradeoffs make more sense as a offline compiler than a traditional virtual machine compiler. Best case for using LLVM in a VM is a last tier compilation that's supposed to approach offline compilation. But even projects that have done that like JavaScriptCore have ended up replacing LLVM with their own backend.

jclay 8y ago

For those who haven't explored LLVM, it's an incredibly powerful technology and rather approachable for getting started with. A few of my favorite LLVM discoveries: - If you want to build Clang (LLVM C/C++ Compiler), it's really simple to pull down and build with little external development tooling (only a compiler and CMake). Shown here [0]. - You can pull LLVM/Clang master and use that for a "bleeding-edge" toolchain with a high degree of stability. [0]. - Clang is used to compile Chromium and Firefox on all platforms. Both have seen great performance gains from Clang's link time optimization. [1] [2] - Klee is built on LLVM infrastructure and is used for automatic generation of test cases. [3] See some of their papers for how powerful their results are. - Clang can now produce ABI compatible binaries with MSVC and has support for the Visual Studio debugger. [4] - Lots of interesting research projects leveraging LLVM [5] [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZI_Qla4pNA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZI_Qla4pNA [1] http://blog.llvm.org/2018/03/clang-is-now-used-to-build-chrome-for.html http://blog.llvm.org/2018/03/clang-is-now-used-to-build-chro... [2] https://glandium.org/blog/?p=3888 https://glandium.org/blog/?p=3888 [3] https://klee.github.io https://klee.github.io [4] http://blog.llvm.org/2017/08/llvm-on-windows-now-supports-pdb-debug.html http://blog.llvm.org/2017/08/llvm-on-windows-now-supports-pd... [5] https://scholar.google.com/scholar?as_ylo=2017&q=LLVM&hl=en&as_sdt=0,33 https://scholar.google.com/scholar?as_ylo=2017&q=LLVM&hl=en&...

jclay 8y ago
My list is mostly C++ focused, but the LLVM tooling for clang-tidy/clang-query is also worth a mention. There are a big set of refactors that you can apply across your codebase if you wanted to migrate to new C++ features for example. You can also write your own if you wanted to refactor to use the API of an updated dependency for example. It's a lower-level version of Javascript's "codemods" for C/C++. There's some work being done to build some tooling around interactively creating AST matchers and applying refactors across an entire codebase. [0] [0] https://steveire.wordpress.com/2018/11/11/future-developments-in-clang-query/ https://steveire.wordpress.com/2018/11/11/future-development...
eslaught 8y ago
Klee is also a great example of the cost of LLVM's never-backwards-compatible approach: according to their home page, the stable release of Klee runs on 3.4 and 3.8 is "experimental". (The LLVM releases since then have included: 3.9, 4.0, 5.0, 6.0, and 7.0.) Don't get me wrong, LLVM is great, but I really wish that as the project matured they had made more of an effort to provide some level of compatibility. As it is, it's a massive pain for open source projects to follow along.

tanin 8y ago

LLVM is a great project. I'm writing a programming language based on it. It is so much easier because: (1) it's easier than writing machine code translation and (2) it's also easier than translating your code to C which would be purely textual. Nevertheless, it's difficult to learn for people coming from high-level languages, even for me, who knows C to some degree. The documentation around IR is scarce. Then, I've stumbled upon a trick where I can just write C code and compile to LLVM IR with Clang. With this trick, I can answer many questions on my own (e.g. how to implement if-else, how to call printf, how to make a dynamic-sized array.)

pnloyd 8y ago
That last tip is so clever! I'll have to remember that if I ever want to undergo such a project.
jclay 8y ago
Nice tip! I've also been watching the Godbolt.org progress improving LLVM IR support which could also be helpful for interactively exploring IR generation. The results are pretty good today if you select Clang compiler and pass `-emit-llvm` flag.
- tanin 8y ago
  That's exactly what I have been doing `clang -S --emit-llvm <filename>`. Godbolt.org is even more handy!