6 ms·

This is a common pattern amongst Chinese apologist Economy: Everyone says it's been failing for 10 years -> Chinese leadership is omnipotent regarding economy

by ubtual 8y ago

This is a common pattern amongst Chinese apologist Economy: Everyone says it's been failing for 10 years -> Chinese leadership is omnipotent regarding economy -> it's just a temporary slowdown, government will print more money -> Chinese leadership planned this slowdown Human rights: look at US! -> ignore comparisons to other countries other than US -> It's not really a concentration camp, since there's no mass murder -> prisoner organ harvesting isn't bad compared to US separating families at the border, or slavery 300 years ago

smnrchrds 8y ago
> or slavery 300 years ago I am no apologist for any country, but wouldn't a better point be the very real, widespread, and constitutionally-protected prisoner slavery, which is happening in America today not just 300 years ago?
- pram 8y ago
  China literally has forced labor camps.
  - withhighprod 8y ago
    “forced” in what way? You don’t have to work and you’ll starve. In China if you quit the “camp” thousands are lined up outside to replace you. Actually I don’t think any existing political system can do a much better job in this case.
- hueving 8y ago
  It's definitely true that it's a stronger argument, but you're playing right into the design of apologist propaganda. By making constant half-assed arguments against something, you get people to disagree with the crap argument then you get other people to present the strongest argument for the sake of arguing. This successfully gets people arguing both sides of an argument about a subject that wasn't part of the original criticism in the first place. The best trolls tell something almost true to get people involved in a fight about details rather than countering the larger misdirection.
- simonh 8y ago
  That’s bad sure, but does it really compare to sourcing 65% of transplant organs, circa 10,000 a year, from executed prisoners in a system with an opaque legal system, minimal civil rights and in which even the number of executions per year is a state secret? Without trying to justify anything, no system is perfect but at least we can talk about it. In China even having this conversation might make you liable to a citizenship points penalty that could end up with you being denied basic rights like the ability to book even domestic flights.
panarky 8y ago
> slavery 300 years ago The emancipation proclamation was signed January 1, 1863, or 156 years ago.
- berlinstartup 8y ago
  Look at you, knowing things! ...you understand that slavery also existed 300 years ago, right?

by ubtual 8y ago

smnrchrds 8y ago

> or slavery 300 years ago I am no apologist for any country, but wouldn't a better point be the very real, widespread, and constitutionally-protected prisoner slavery, which is happening in America today not just 300 years ago?

pram 8y ago
China literally has forced labor camps.
- withhighprod 8y ago
  “forced” in what way? You don’t have to work and you’ll starve. In China if you quit the “camp” thousands are lined up outside to replace you. Actually I don’t think any existing political system can do a much better job in this case.
hueving 8y ago
It's definitely true that it's a stronger argument, but you're playing right into the design of apologist propaganda. By making constant half-assed arguments against something, you get people to disagree with the crap argument then you get other people to present the strongest argument for the sake of arguing. This successfully gets people arguing both sides of an argument about a subject that wasn't part of the original criticism in the first place. The best trolls tell something almost true to get people involved in a fight about details rather than countering the larger misdirection.
simonh 8y ago
That’s bad sure, but does it really compare to sourcing 65% of transplant organs, circa 10,000 a year, from executed prisoners in a system with an opaque legal system, minimal civil rights and in which even the number of executions per year is a state secret? Without trying to justify anything, no system is perfect but at least we can talk about it. In China even having this conversation might make you liable to a citizenship points penalty that could end up with you being denied basic rights like the ability to book even domestic flights.

panarky 8y ago

> slavery 300 years ago The emancipation proclamation was signed January 1, 1863, or 156 years ago.

berlinstartup 8y ago
Look at you, knowing things! ...you understand that slavery also existed 300 years ago, right?