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Indeed, but the network benefits dramatically from - naturally - network effects. Today you rarely ever see infrastructure projects in Switzerland which are in

Indeed, but the network benefits dramatically from - naturally - network effects. Today you rarely ever see infrastructure projects in Switzerland which are incompatible with the existing network. If you build a hyperloop tunnel, only hyperloop cars will be able to use it, and only in the tunnel. If you build a rail tunnel, it is automatically integrated into the huge existing rail infrastructure. Unless, of course, you built an entire new infrastructure, such as Japan and France did. But Switzerland doesn't need entirely new transit infrastructure today, just localized upgrades. That's the same reason why maglev hardly ever caught up in the world.

ceejayoz 8y ago
You've already got folks hopping from IC trains to regional ones in the major cities. I'm not clear on why you think a hyperloop between major cities (eventually replacing the current high-speed lines) couldn't possibly interlink with the regional/local transit options at major stations.
- ucaetano 8y ago
  > I'm not clear on why you think a hyperloop between major cities (eventually replacing the current high-speed lines) Why would you replace perfectly good existing infrastructure that is used not just for high-speed rail in Switzerland with an entirely new, untested, incompatible system that will provide little incremental benefit while severely crippling the existing rail network? High-speed rail lines in Switzerland aren't isolated, different-gauge networks like Japan, they are largely part of the same rail network, just with higher speed limits. Take the new Gotthard Base Tunnel, while it has an operational speed of 200km/h for passenger rail, it is also extensively used for cargo trains (at lower speeds). Building it didn't just reduce the time for trips between Zurich and Milan, the main Nort-South route, but for anyone travelling from the north side of it to the south side of it, as current trains can run through it just as any other railroad. Particularly, it has a massive impact on cargo, as it was designed from the beginning to reduce congestion in trans-alpine cargo routes. It provides massive network effects not just to Switzerland, but to all of Europe. Replacing something like this with Hyperloop isn't just a bad idea, is a complete disaster. Switzerland is probably the last country in the world to need something like a Hyperloop. No wonder we thought about it 50 years ago and shut down the idea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissmetro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissmetro
  - Retric 8y ago
    Countries can take super long views of such projects. In 100+ years are people going to want super high speed rail? If so, a little investment now can add up in the long term. This a long way from proven technology, but you make that jump in small investments not a complete replacement of a working system. Even better, the first track is going to end up as a tourist destination.
jpatokal 8y ago
It's worth noting that both France and Japan have a number of high-speed trains that run onto regular track -- although in Japan's case the different rail gauge made this difficult enough that neither approach (dual rails or flex trains) has been widely adopted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-shinkansen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-shinkansen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_Change_Train https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_Change_Train
- ucaetano 8y ago
  Sure, the TGV is a standard-gauge set that can run in most of Western Europe's rail. The issue is that regular rail can't run on the TGV lines. Japan/France took a different approach than Germany/Switzerland for HSR. Germany and Switzerland are far less centralized than Japan and France, and that reflects in the network, which began as upgrades to lines between major cities, and new sections with new tracks. France's system reflects its historical centralization, since the late middle ages. Paris is the economic, political, artistic, demographic center of the country, and just like the first railroads in the country were created to expand central control over the rest of the country, TGV started as a spoke network with a single hub: Paris.

ceejayoz 8y ago

You've already got folks hopping from IC trains to regional ones in the major cities. I'm not clear on why you think a hyperloop between major cities (eventually replacing the current high-speed lines) couldn't possibly interlink with the regional/local transit options at major stations.

ucaetano 8y ago
> I'm not clear on why you think a hyperloop between major cities (eventually replacing the current high-speed lines) Why would you replace perfectly good existing infrastructure that is used not just for high-speed rail in Switzerland with an entirely new, untested, incompatible system that will provide little incremental benefit while severely crippling the existing rail network? High-speed rail lines in Switzerland aren't isolated, different-gauge networks like Japan, they are largely part of the same rail network, just with higher speed limits. Take the new Gotthard Base Tunnel, while it has an operational speed of 200km/h for passenger rail, it is also extensively used for cargo trains (at lower speeds). Building it didn't just reduce the time for trips between Zurich and Milan, the main Nort-South route, but for anyone travelling from the north side of it to the south side of it, as current trains can run through it just as any other railroad. Particularly, it has a massive impact on cargo, as it was designed from the beginning to reduce congestion in trans-alpine cargo routes. It provides massive network effects not just to Switzerland, but to all of Europe. Replacing something like this with Hyperloop isn't just a bad idea, is a complete disaster. Switzerland is probably the last country in the world to need something like a Hyperloop. No wonder we thought about it 50 years ago and shut down the idea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissmetro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissmetro
- Retric 8y ago
  Countries can take super long views of such projects. In 100+ years are people going to want super high speed rail? If so, a little investment now can add up in the long term. This a long way from proven technology, but you make that jump in small investments not a complete replacement of a working system. Even better, the first track is going to end up as a tourist destination.

jpatokal 8y ago

It's worth noting that both France and Japan have a number of high-speed trains that run onto regular track -- although in Japan's case the different rail gauge made this difficult enough that neither approach (dual rails or flex trains) has been widely adopted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-shinkansen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-shinkansen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_Change_Train https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_Change_Train

ucaetano 8y ago
Sure, the TGV is a standard-gauge set that can run in most of Western Europe's rail. The issue is that regular rail can't run on the TGV lines. Japan/France took a different approach than Germany/Switzerland for HSR. Germany and Switzerland are far less centralized than Japan and France, and that reflects in the network, which began as upgrades to lines between major cities, and new sections with new tracks. France's system reflects its historical centralization, since the late middle ages. Paris is the economic, political, artistic, demographic center of the country, and just like the first railroads in the country were created to expand central control over the rest of the country, TGV started as a spoke network with a single hub: Paris.