5 ms·

Absolutely. Fine everyone into the ground. Doesn't look like there is any other way to make people take security seriously. I'm not a fan of the overregulation

Absolutely. Fine everyone into the ground. Doesn't look like there is any other way to make people take security seriously. I'm not a fan of the overregulation of industries like aviation, but consumer software has gone too far in the other direction and is long overdue for an adjustment.

UncleMeat 8y ago
The end result of this is that the number of software companies drops by 99.99%. Does your company run anything on Linux? Too bad, there are vulns in the kernel and now you are fined into the ground.
- 794CD01 8y ago
  I would hope for 100. We deserve it. Though of course others deserve it more.
- rapind 8y ago
  Let's assume you're not being dramatic. It would be a pretty lucrative market if 99.99% of current software companies went under. New businesses would show up with a much greater focus on security and quality. That's a bad thing? The realm problem is the inevitable regulatory capture that occurs in every market with even an ounce of complexity. Given the number of high profile breaches we see every month, I definitely think we're due for some consequences.
bad_user 8y ago
Really? How has "consumer software gone too far in the other direction"? Does it ... kill people? Does it enforce bad policies like the healthcare industry did for the past couple of decades, causing an epidemic of obesity, diabetes and heart disease, which are the top causes of death? Yeah, regulation there definitely helped /s
- bosie 8y ago
  > Does it ... kill people? Facebook asked users to upload nude photos. what if those get leaked and users commit suicide because of it? Would you (partially) blame facebook for their death? > Does it enforce bad policies like the healthcare industry did for the past couple of decades, causing an epidemic of obesity, diabetes and heart disease, which are the top causes of death? Genuine question but what policies are the reasons for the epidemic of the three death causes you just mentioned?
  - TallGuyShort 8y ago
    >> Facebook asked users to upload nude photos I missed that one. By now even lay people should know that's a recipe for disaster.
  - bad_user 8y ago
    > "Would you (partially) blame facebook for their death?" No, because doing nude pictures of yourself and then distributing them, no matter where, is just stupid. Parents should educate their kids to know better, or seek counseling if that mistake was made. You're also talking of a hypothetical situation. When planes crash, people die, guaranteed. And yearly there are more than 100 plane crashes. > "Genuine question but what policies are the reasons for the epidemic of the three death causes you just mentioned?" The recommendation for a diet high in sugar, high in wheat and other grains, high in vegetable oils / polyunsaturated fats (e.g. Omega-6), low in saturated fat, low in dietary cholesterol, low in salt. Children were fed in schools, diets were set in hospitals, foods where preferred in supermarkets according to these guidelines. That's not a debate I want to get into though.
    - mynameisvlad 8y ago
      > You're also talking of a hypothetical situation Considering this article is about Facebook leaking 6+million photos to third parties, including photos that were uploaded but never shared, it's well within the realm of possibility that at least one of those millions of photos was a nude. In fact, I'd bet there were quite a few nudes in the leaked set. It only takes one more step to turn that hypothetical of yours into a reality.
- 794CD01 8y ago
  Others sufficiently cover the actual killing. I would only add that wasting peoples' time and/or money at scale is just as bad. Waste 30 seconds for each of 100 million people and that's an above average human lifetime. BTW, how do you think anti-vaccination, healthy at any size, and minor attracted people ideas became popular? I specify those only because they are particularly heinous, but if you want official policy, just look at literally any election, though the 2016 US presidential election and the brexit referendum are the standouts in terms of memes.
  - bad_user 8y ago
    > "Others sufficiently cover the actual killing" I haven't seen any response yet. Does Facebook kill people, yes or no, it's a simple answer. > "wasting peoples' time and/or money at scale is just as bad" What? > "how do you think anti-vaccination, healthy at any size, and minor attracted people ideas became popular?" In that regard all Facebook does is giving people the tools to exercise their freedom of speech, possibly with an algorithm for that feed whose effects they couldn't predict, because it was built to maximize profits, not sanity ... and that will never be illegal ;-) I understand some of the arguments that Facebook encouraged fake news, however speaking as somebody that was born in communism, I can tell you that fake news isn't new, it happened before WW I, it happened before WW II, it happened at the east of the Iron Curtain (at least) during the Cold War, and it happened just as well afterwards. In my country distributing news via Facebook isn't even that popular, yet fake news is flourishing ... on TV. People are always looking for a scapegoat, for an easy answer, for an easy fix. It's only natural, but it doesn't make it right. No, I don't think Facebook is to blame for fake news, even if it might have contributed. Facebook can't be responsible for the poor education that people are given.
- sifoobar 8y ago
  There have been several cases of bullying people to commit suicide where it's not obvious how the same thing could have been accomplished without without the leverage Facebook provides. I'm grateful I didn't have to live through this as a teenager, it's a shark pool. So how long do we keep pretending that allowing this to go on is a viable way forward?
kaybe 8y ago
Maybe what is said about the aviation industry regulation - it is written in blood [0] - will be true about the software industry regulation as well. [0] As in: Every rule was included because someone (nearly) died because of it not being there before.
Retra 8y ago
Fine everyone? Oh look, data breaches stop being reported. I guess we succeeded in reducing them?
- pixl97 8y ago
  Um yea, not the way it works. First external services, such as those provided by Krebs would find your data on the darknet. Second, offer employees a cut from the fines.
  - Retra 8y ago
    Pay employees when their company is fined for security breaches? Damn, good thing I'm a software developer.

UncleMeat 8y ago

The end result of this is that the number of software companies drops by 99.99%. Does your company run anything on Linux? Too bad, there are vulns in the kernel and now you are fined into the ground.

794CD01 8y ago
I would hope for 100. We deserve it. Though of course others deserve it more.
rapind 8y ago
Let's assume you're not being dramatic. It would be a pretty lucrative market if 99.99% of current software companies went under. New businesses would show up with a much greater focus on security and quality. That's a bad thing? The realm problem is the inevitable regulatory capture that occurs in every market with even an ounce of complexity. Given the number of high profile breaches we see every month, I definitely think we're due for some consequences.

bad_user 8y ago

Really? How has "consumer software gone too far in the other direction"? Does it ... kill people? Does it enforce bad policies like the healthcare industry did for the past couple of decades, causing an epidemic of obesity, diabetes and heart disease, which are the top causes of death? Yeah, regulation there definitely helped /s

bosie 8y ago
> Does it ... kill people? Facebook asked users to upload nude photos. what if those get leaked and users commit suicide because of it? Would you (partially) blame facebook for their death? > Does it enforce bad policies like the healthcare industry did for the past couple of decades, causing an epidemic of obesity, diabetes and heart disease, which are the top causes of death? Genuine question but what policies are the reasons for the epidemic of the three death causes you just mentioned?
- TallGuyShort 8y ago
  >> Facebook asked users to upload nude photos I missed that one. By now even lay people should know that's a recipe for disaster.
- bad_user 8y ago
  > "Would you (partially) blame facebook for their death?" No, because doing nude pictures of yourself and then distributing them, no matter where, is just stupid. Parents should educate their kids to know better, or seek counseling if that mistake was made. You're also talking of a hypothetical situation. When planes crash, people die, guaranteed. And yearly there are more than 100 plane crashes. > "Genuine question but what policies are the reasons for the epidemic of the three death causes you just mentioned?" The recommendation for a diet high in sugar, high in wheat and other grains, high in vegetable oils / polyunsaturated fats (e.g. Omega-6), low in saturated fat, low in dietary cholesterol, low in salt. Children were fed in schools, diets were set in hospitals, foods where preferred in supermarkets according to these guidelines. That's not a debate I want to get into though.
  - mynameisvlad 8y ago
    > You're also talking of a hypothetical situation Considering this article is about Facebook leaking 6+million photos to third parties, including photos that were uploaded but never shared, it's well within the realm of possibility that at least one of those millions of photos was a nude. In fact, I'd bet there were quite a few nudes in the leaked set. It only takes one more step to turn that hypothetical of yours into a reality.
794CD01 8y ago
Others sufficiently cover the actual killing. I would only add that wasting peoples' time and/or money at scale is just as bad. Waste 30 seconds for each of 100 million people and that's an above average human lifetime. BTW, how do you think anti-vaccination, healthy at any size, and minor attracted people ideas became popular? I specify those only because they are particularly heinous, but if you want official policy, just look at literally any election, though the 2016 US presidential election and the brexit referendum are the standouts in terms of memes.
- bad_user 8y ago
  > "Others sufficiently cover the actual killing" I haven't seen any response yet. Does Facebook kill people, yes or no, it's a simple answer. > "wasting peoples' time and/or money at scale is just as bad" What? > "how do you think anti-vaccination, healthy at any size, and minor attracted people ideas became popular?" In that regard all Facebook does is giving people the tools to exercise their freedom of speech, possibly with an algorithm for that feed whose effects they couldn't predict, because it was built to maximize profits, not sanity ... and that will never be illegal ;-) I understand some of the arguments that Facebook encouraged fake news, however speaking as somebody that was born in communism, I can tell you that fake news isn't new, it happened before WW I, it happened before WW II, it happened at the east of the Iron Curtain (at least) during the Cold War, and it happened just as well afterwards. In my country distributing news via Facebook isn't even that popular, yet fake news is flourishing ... on TV. People are always looking for a scapegoat, for an easy answer, for an easy fix. It's only natural, but it doesn't make it right. No, I don't think Facebook is to blame for fake news, even if it might have contributed. Facebook can't be responsible for the poor education that people are given.
sifoobar 8y ago
There have been several cases of bullying people to commit suicide where it's not obvious how the same thing could have been accomplished without without the leverage Facebook provides. I'm grateful I didn't have to live through this as a teenager, it's a shark pool. So how long do we keep pretending that allowing this to go on is a viable way forward?

kaybe 8y ago

Maybe what is said about the aviation industry regulation - it is written in blood [0] - will be true about the software industry regulation as well. [0] As in: Every rule was included because someone (nearly) died because of it not being there before.

Retra 8y ago

Fine everyone? Oh look, data breaches stop being reported. I guess we succeeded in reducing them?

pixl97 8y ago
Um yea, not the way it works. First external services, such as those provided by Krebs would find your data on the darknet. Second, offer employees a cut from the fines.
- Retra 8y ago
  Pay employees when their company is fined for security breaches? Damn, good thing I'm a software developer.