5 ms·

Ah yes, because Samuel Slater smuggled cotton spinner trade secrets out of England in 1789, China is justified committing IP theft today. Sound logic

starbeast 8y ago
The definition of theft of IP is entirely a product of local jurisdiction though, given we are talking about temporary monopolies on ephemera and not physical protection of personal claims on objects or spaces.
- pnw_hazor 8y ago
  China defines IP theft the same as EU and USA (more or less.)
  - starbeast 8y ago
    Clearly there are some differences of opinion, given the context.
chmod775 8y ago
No need to go that far back. Try 2013. And unless anything changed since the Snowden revelations, the US is still conducting (or attempting to conduct) industrial espionage to this day. In some cases they were in direct violation of agreements they had with other countries concerning such espionage[1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_espionage#Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_espionage#Germany
- devoply 8y ago
  If Snowden revealed anything it's that there is lots of hypocrisy involved and for the most part American citizens are in line with that hypocrisy as long as it does not effect them personally. And if we see China's behavior it's in line with accounting for this hypocrisy. Sure the US calls them out on it all the time, and they can't respond to the allegations... But similarly their citizens are on board with their hypocrisy. It's a world full of liars looking to exploit however they can so they can get to the top and remain there. It's all propped up on a commonly accepted fiction, if you did a bit deeper you see all the fictions are there to support various power structures and keep them functioning. So can you blame China or the US... Not really everyone is playing the hand they were dealt the best way they know how.
  - kittiepryde 8y ago
    I'm an American citizen and I'm not on board with the hypocrisy. Everyone should follow the rules to the best of their abilities.
yorwba 8y ago
No, Samuel Slater smuggling trade secrets was a consequence, not a reason, of the same sound logic that also makes China ignore the IP laws of other countries: if there's a group of other people with a mutually beneficial agreement, who expect you to play by their rules without getting any of the benefits, then fuck 'em.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
coldtea 8y ago
The logic is "if you've used it to become the richest nation on earth don't knock out others using it to become rich". And those that still benefit from the heads-tart due to their country/ancestors having done so, shouldn't play it holier than thou either. Not to mention the whole hypocrisy, since the US has used corporate espionage and actual spying on supposed "allies" corporations since forever and still does, plus using their military and diplomatic might to ensure cheap resources, control of trade routes, use of its currently, and bending "banana republics" to its will and installing friendly lackeys to the detriment of their peoples. Case in point, this vintage gem posted today: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18683073 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18683073
- pytyper2 8y ago
  If he was smuggling, it was a crime then, it's a crime now.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - DennisP 8y ago
    If you're referring to Slater, it was not a crime in the U.S., and explicitly legal for quite some time afterwards. See the links I posted in another comment here.
    - room500 8y ago
      There are many things previous generations did in the name of economic progress that we would find wrong today (slavery, child labor, etc). Times change and I should not be required to defend the morality of my ancestors. That is not hypocritical.
- zxcvvcxz 8y ago
  >The logic is "if you've used it to become the richest nation on earth don't knock out others using it to become rich". Cool, so you have no issues with China, India, Africa accelerating their use of fossil fuels.
trainingaccount 8y ago
We smuggled those silkworms out of China and can make our own silk now!
- masonic 8y ago
  Those silkworms were slaves, and trafficked.
DennisP 8y ago
My second paragraph is why I think China might be justified to some extent. My first paragraph was only to say that I don't think China's culture is unusually disrespectful of others.

starbeast 8y ago

The definition of theft of IP is entirely a product of local jurisdiction though, given we are talking about temporary monopolies on ephemera and not physical protection of personal claims on objects or spaces.

pnw_hazor 8y ago
China defines IP theft the same as EU and USA (more or less.)
- starbeast 8y ago
  Clearly there are some differences of opinion, given the context.

chmod775 8y ago

No need to go that far back. Try 2013. And unless anything changed since the Snowden revelations, the US is still conducting (or attempting to conduct) industrial espionage to this day. In some cases they were in direct violation of agreements they had with other countries concerning such espionage[1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_espionage#Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_espionage#Germany

devoply 8y ago
If Snowden revealed anything it's that there is lots of hypocrisy involved and for the most part American citizens are in line with that hypocrisy as long as it does not effect them personally. And if we see China's behavior it's in line with accounting for this hypocrisy. Sure the US calls them out on it all the time, and they can't respond to the allegations... But similarly their citizens are on board with their hypocrisy. It's a world full of liars looking to exploit however they can so they can get to the top and remain there. It's all propped up on a commonly accepted fiction, if you did a bit deeper you see all the fictions are there to support various power structures and keep them functioning. So can you blame China or the US... Not really everyone is playing the hand they were dealt the best way they know how.
- kittiepryde 8y ago
  I'm an American citizen and I'm not on board with the hypocrisy. Everyone should follow the rules to the best of their abilities.

yorwba 8y ago

No, Samuel Slater smuggling trade secrets was a consequence, not a reason, of the same sound logic that also makes China ignore the IP laws of other countries: if there's a group of other people with a mutually beneficial agreement, who expect you to play by their rules without getting any of the benefits, then fuck 'em.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

coldtea 8y ago

The logic is "if you've used it to become the richest nation on earth don't knock out others using it to become rich". And those that still benefit from the heads-tart due to their country/ancestors having done so, shouldn't play it holier than thou either. Not to mention the whole hypocrisy, since the US has used corporate espionage and actual spying on supposed "allies" corporations since forever and still does, plus using their military and diplomatic might to ensure cheap resources, control of trade routes, use of its currently, and bending "banana republics" to its will and installing friendly lackeys to the detriment of their peoples. Case in point, this vintage gem posted today: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18683073 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18683073

pytyper2 8y ago
If he was smuggling, it was a crime then, it's a crime now.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- DennisP 8y ago
  If you're referring to Slater, it was not a crime in the U.S., and explicitly legal for quite some time afterwards. See the links I posted in another comment here.
  - room500 8y ago
    There are many things previous generations did in the name of economic progress that we would find wrong today (slavery, child labor, etc). Times change and I should not be required to defend the morality of my ancestors. That is not hypocritical.
zxcvvcxz 8y ago
>The logic is "if you've used it to become the richest nation on earth don't knock out others using it to become rich". Cool, so you have no issues with China, India, Africa accelerating their use of fossil fuels.

trainingaccount 8y ago

We smuggled those silkworms out of China and can make our own silk now!

masonic 8y ago
Those silkworms were slaves, and trafficked.

DennisP 8y ago

My second paragraph is why I think China might be justified to some extent. My first paragraph was only to say that I don't think China's culture is unusually disrespectful of others.