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In theory all you need to make it work is good internet connection. Especially if its remote. If there was a serious offer from some company where for the same

In theory all you need to make it work is good internet connection. Especially if its remote. If there was a serious offer from some company where for the same amount of rent in SF, I could have a mortgage on literal acres of land, thats attractive. Less attractive is the crumbling infrastructure, opioid wildfires, actual wildfires, and aggressively conservative culture. Gotta try something though, right?

sidlls 8y ago
People drastically understate the infrastructure and other issues you note in places outside of major urban centers of technology. My children do not have a net benefit from a huge home on a huge plot of land if the schools are garbage, there are few or no parks, the politics are very conservative, and diversity is lacking.
- pastor_elm 8y ago
  A good school district in America is a bubble itself. The diversity is lacking and the politics are even worse than conservative. They're self-righteous.
- TarpitCarnivore 8y ago
  > if the schools are garbage, there are few or no parks, the politics are very conservative, and diversity is lacking. But all of this exists outside of rural areas, and in fact in many areas close to metro hubs. Just because you're in a more urban environment does not guarantee you to have this utopian neighborhood.
  - sidlls 8y ago
    Of course it doesn't guarantee that; nothing is guaranteed. It comes down to likelihood: I'm more likely to find high quality education and diversity (cultural and recreational) in the Bay Area, New York, etc. than almost anywhere else in America.
- badpun 8y ago
  As someone coming from Poland, a country that’s pretty much 100% white and Polish, I don’t feel that the lack of “diversity” has negatively impacted my development. It seems to me that people in the US have been brainwashed (in schools, by media etc.) into believing that diversity is always good and lack of diversity is always bad, while in reality it’s not that simple.
  - danans 8y ago
    > I don’t feel that the lack of “diversity” has negatively impacted my development They said they want diversity for their children. That has nothing to do with how your environment impacted you. People are allowed to have preferences so long as in the process of acting on them, they don't trample on others' rights.
    - badpun 8y ago
      That’s... obvious? Of course people have a right to their subjective opinions and preferences. What I’m interested in though is the objective reality of this matter, i.e. whether or not diversity is beneficial for child’s development.
      - danans 8y ago
        > What I’m interested in though is the objective reality of this matter, i.e. whether or not diversity is beneficial for child’s development. There isn't an objective reality. Depending on what you personally value, diversity could be a cost, benefit, or neutral for your children. You may not even know the results until much later, and even then it will be hard to discern the causal factors, though you may try to posit them. It could also just come down to "I like living in a diverse environment because it's more interesting for me, and I'm only going to live once".
        badpun 8y ago
        There certainly is an objective reality. It may be very hard to determine what it is, but it nevertheless exists. In this case, as long as you define developmental goals (ex. the child develops into kind, responsible, emotionally stable adult etc.), the policies/circumstances, such as being raised in a diverse environment, being allowed to watch TV, studying a lot, always wearing black socks etc. will or will not have impact (positive or negative) on those goals.
- grillvogel 8y ago
  why do you need a park if you live on multiple acres of land?
jandrese 8y ago
Plenty of other factors too. No nightlife. Limited restaurant options. Schools that offer only the basics and may be failing. No public transit. Shitty and expensive Internet. No local job hopping opportunities. Limited extracurricular activities for the kids. Lots of anti-intellectual peer groups in the schools. You pay a lot for that cheap house in the end.
- ThrustVectoring 8y ago
  The job hopping opportunities can't be overstated. It's the BATNA for salary negotiations with employers, so it basically determines what your salary is going to be.
  - hardolaf 8y ago
    I moved to Chicago, and from the north window of my building, I can look into the offices of three companies that employ people like me (digital design engineers) that I know of. That view is called the next building. Within a half mile of where I work, I know of more than 30 companies that I can easily hop to. Within a half mile of the CTA train system, there's more than 100 companies that I can hop to. If I extend my search into the nearby suburbs which are well served by Metra, we're now talking about 200-300 companies. Sure, most are small, but a significant number of them aren't.
    - jandrese 8y ago
      Chicago isn't exactly a small town.
CydeWeys 8y ago
The thing is, when I'm working remotely, the amenities that the city I live in can provide are even more important than if I'm working in an office. If I'm working remotely, then 100% of my social needs have to come from the city. So having culture, things to do, etc., becomes even more important. I live in a city because I like living in a city, and then secondarily also because there's good jobs here.
- state_less 8y ago
  Depends on what you value. You might also be rooting for Musk's low latency Starlink program so you can hangout at the reef or in the mountains.
  - HarryHirsch 8y ago
    It doesn't work like that. A colleague argued in all seriousness that watching ballet on Youtube is the same as watching it live at the NY City Ballet. The fellow is a boor who would be in NYC for a day but never take his kids to the Natural History Museum to see the dinosaur skeletons.
    - ghaff 8y ago
      I suppose if your criteria is that you need to have world class ballet where you live, that does indeed restrict your options.
      - HarryHirsch 8y ago
        What I'm saying is that having high-speed Internet is not the same as being close to culture. It also doesn't put pressure on the corrupt sheriff to straighten out or insist that the school district provide an actual education for the schoolkids. For all that you need a critical mass of interested people.
        ghaff 8y ago
        If you're talking public schools, they actually tend to be pretty bad based on standard metrics in even elite metros like New York City. And major cities probably have more explicit corruption than small towns. see Chicago historically. That said, I don't really disagree with your basic point. To see plays, orchestra, etc. you need to be at least within an hour or so of either a city or a university town.

sidlls 8y ago

People drastically understate the infrastructure and other issues you note in places outside of major urban centers of technology. My children do not have a net benefit from a huge home on a huge plot of land if the schools are garbage, there are few or no parks, the politics are very conservative, and diversity is lacking.

pastor_elm 8y ago
A good school district in America is a bubble itself. The diversity is lacking and the politics are even worse than conservative. They're self-righteous.
TarpitCarnivore 8y ago
> if the schools are garbage, there are few or no parks, the politics are very conservative, and diversity is lacking. But all of this exists outside of rural areas, and in fact in many areas close to metro hubs. Just because you're in a more urban environment does not guarantee you to have this utopian neighborhood.
- sidlls 8y ago
  Of course it doesn't guarantee that; nothing is guaranteed. It comes down to likelihood: I'm more likely to find high quality education and diversity (cultural and recreational) in the Bay Area, New York, etc. than almost anywhere else in America.
badpun 8y ago
As someone coming from Poland, a country that’s pretty much 100% white and Polish, I don’t feel that the lack of “diversity” has negatively impacted my development. It seems to me that people in the US have been brainwashed (in schools, by media etc.) into believing that diversity is always good and lack of diversity is always bad, while in reality it’s not that simple.
- danans 8y ago
  > I don’t feel that the lack of “diversity” has negatively impacted my development They said they want diversity for their children. That has nothing to do with how your environment impacted you. People are allowed to have preferences so long as in the process of acting on them, they don't trample on others' rights.
  - badpun 8y ago
    That’s... obvious? Of course people have a right to their subjective opinions and preferences. What I’m interested in though is the objective reality of this matter, i.e. whether or not diversity is beneficial for child’s development.
    - danans 8y ago
      > What I’m interested in though is the objective reality of this matter, i.e. whether or not diversity is beneficial for child’s development. There isn't an objective reality. Depending on what you personally value, diversity could be a cost, benefit, or neutral for your children. You may not even know the results until much later, and even then it will be hard to discern the causal factors, though you may try to posit them. It could also just come down to "I like living in a diverse environment because it's more interesting for me, and I'm only going to live once".
      - badpun 8y ago
        There certainly is an objective reality. It may be very hard to determine what it is, but it nevertheless exists. In this case, as long as you define developmental goals (ex. the child develops into kind, responsible, emotionally stable adult etc.), the policies/circumstances, such as being raised in a diverse environment, being allowed to watch TV, studying a lot, always wearing black socks etc. will or will not have impact (positive or negative) on those goals.
grillvogel 8y ago
why do you need a park if you live on multiple acres of land?

jandrese 8y ago

Plenty of other factors too. No nightlife. Limited restaurant options. Schools that offer only the basics and may be failing. No public transit. Shitty and expensive Internet. No local job hopping opportunities. Limited extracurricular activities for the kids. Lots of anti-intellectual peer groups in the schools. You pay a lot for that cheap house in the end.

ThrustVectoring 8y ago
The job hopping opportunities can't be overstated. It's the BATNA for salary negotiations with employers, so it basically determines what your salary is going to be.
- hardolaf 8y ago
  I moved to Chicago, and from the north window of my building, I can look into the offices of three companies that employ people like me (digital design engineers) that I know of. That view is called the next building. Within a half mile of where I work, I know of more than 30 companies that I can easily hop to. Within a half mile of the CTA train system, there's more than 100 companies that I can hop to. If I extend my search into the nearby suburbs which are well served by Metra, we're now talking about 200-300 companies. Sure, most are small, but a significant number of them aren't.
  - jandrese 8y ago
    Chicago isn't exactly a small town.

CydeWeys 8y ago

The thing is, when I'm working remotely, the amenities that the city I live in can provide are even more important than if I'm working in an office. If I'm working remotely, then 100% of my social needs have to come from the city. So having culture, things to do, etc., becomes even more important. I live in a city because I like living in a city, and then secondarily also because there's good jobs here.

state_less 8y ago
Depends on what you value. You might also be rooting for Musk's low latency Starlink program so you can hangout at the reef or in the mountains.
- HarryHirsch 8y ago
  It doesn't work like that. A colleague argued in all seriousness that watching ballet on Youtube is the same as watching it live at the NY City Ballet. The fellow is a boor who would be in NYC for a day but never take his kids to the Natural History Museum to see the dinosaur skeletons.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    I suppose if your criteria is that you need to have world class ballet where you live, that does indeed restrict your options.
    - HarryHirsch 8y ago
      What I'm saying is that having high-speed Internet is not the same as being close to culture. It also doesn't put pressure on the corrupt sheriff to straighten out or insist that the school district provide an actual education for the schoolkids. For all that you need a critical mass of interested people.
      - ghaff 8y ago
        If you're talking public schools, they actually tend to be pretty bad based on standard metrics in even elite metros like New York City. And major cities probably have more explicit corruption than small towns. see Chicago historically. That said, I don't really disagree with your basic point. To see plays, orchestra, etc. you need to be at least within an hour or so of either a city or a university town.