5 ms·

If a plane crashed, and the company that manufactured the plane was fined because they had an engineering bug, no one would blink an eye.

canttestthis 8y ago
The analogy doesn't work. Barring malicious intent or negligence leading to death I cannot imagine (or remember) a situation where the company would be fined for a software bug.
- vanderZwan 8y ago
  That is more of a failure of the imagination then. It's not like programming would cease to exist if fines were introduced.
- EpicEng 8y ago
  >or negligence Right. Companies like FB are entrusted with the private information of hundreds of millions of people. There should be investigations as there would be in a plane crash. If negligence is found, there should be appropriate punishment doled out.
- burkaman 8y ago
  Financial regulators are happy to do it. https://www.networkworld.com/article/2225633/software/knight-capital-fined-a-measly--12m-for-a-software-bug-that-cost--460m.html https://www.networkworld.com/article/2225633/software/knight... https://www.qa-financial.com/articles/cftc-fines-societe-generale-450000-software-bug https://www.qa-financial.com/articles/cftc-fines-societe-gen... https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/citigroup-fined-7m-over-software-bug-that-misreported-trading-data-us-regulator-15-years-1570635 https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/citigroup-fined-7m-over-software-b... https://www.bbc.com/news/business-30125728 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-30125728 https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/mar/06/microsoft-fined-browser-error https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/mar/06/microsoft...
- elliekelly 8y ago
  This analogy does work. Boeing's software caused a plane to crash: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-indonesia-crash-boeing/boeing-to-hold-airline-call-on-737-max-systems-after-indonesia-crash-sources-idUSKCN1NP09V https://www.reuters.com/article/us-indonesia-crash-boeing/bo...
tomatotomato37 8y ago
This is more akin to the manufactoring company finding a defect that may or may not have contributed to a crash. Facebook hasn't said anything about if this bug was actually exploited
- dunpeal 8y ago
  I'm sure it would be their top priority to tell everyone that the bug was exploited.
newsopt 8y ago
Yes, there is a qualitative difference between a plane crashing and people dying and 69 million photos being leaked. If you have trouble understanding the difference you should probably see a therapist.
- vernie 8y ago
  It's just too bad that all crimes are punished by death. Awfully unfair and disproportionate in most cases.
  - newsopt 8y ago
    Nice snarky response, I'm not the person that equated leaking photos to a plane crashing >It's just too bad that all crimes are punished by death. Awfully unfair and disproportionate in most cases. What are you even responding to? Explain this to me I'm too stupid to understand how your comment makes any sense in any context.
    - sctb 8y ago
      Would you please read the guidelines before commenting further? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
vernie 8y ago
Many programmers like to insist that they're engineers and at the same time come up with excuses for why they shouldn't be held to the same standards as other types of engineers.
- golemiprague 8y ago
  Software development is more like a craft rather than engineering. If you are willing to pay for an app the same money you pay for a bridge than you will get the same quality and rigorous checking. But even then, there are less than 10 types of bridges in the world comparing to software which has to simulate every human activity and sometimes imaginary activities like games, all that in much higher levels of complications, constant changes of requirements and infinitely open for later changes through the life time of the application. Do you really think you can compare those two things?
- Retra 8y ago
  Some of us just want to be engineers but know full well how difficult that actually is and want to be paid well enough to seriously research that problem. Thus most of us are experimentalists and prototype engineers, not ones making claims strong enough to be liable for.

canttestthis 8y ago

The analogy doesn't work. Barring malicious intent or negligence leading to death I cannot imagine (or remember) a situation where the company would be fined for a software bug.

vanderZwan 8y ago
That is more of a failure of the imagination then. It's not like programming would cease to exist if fines were introduced.
EpicEng 8y ago
>or negligence Right. Companies like FB are entrusted with the private information of hundreds of millions of people. There should be investigations as there would be in a plane crash. If negligence is found, there should be appropriate punishment doled out.
burkaman 8y ago
Financial regulators are happy to do it. https://www.networkworld.com/article/2225633/software/knight-capital-fined-a-measly--12m-for-a-software-bug-that-cost--460m.html https://www.networkworld.com/article/2225633/software/knight... https://www.qa-financial.com/articles/cftc-fines-societe-generale-450000-software-bug https://www.qa-financial.com/articles/cftc-fines-societe-gen... https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/citigroup-fined-7m-over-software-bug-that-misreported-trading-data-us-regulator-15-years-1570635 https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/citigroup-fined-7m-over-software-b... https://www.bbc.com/news/business-30125728 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-30125728 https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/mar/06/microsoft-fined-browser-error https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/mar/06/microsoft...
elliekelly 8y ago
This analogy does work. Boeing's software caused a plane to crash: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-indonesia-crash-boeing/boeing-to-hold-airline-call-on-737-max-systems-after-indonesia-crash-sources-idUSKCN1NP09V https://www.reuters.com/article/us-indonesia-crash-boeing/bo...

tomatotomato37 8y ago

This is more akin to the manufactoring company finding a defect that may or may not have contributed to a crash. Facebook hasn't said anything about if this bug was actually exploited

dunpeal 8y ago
I'm sure it would be their top priority to tell everyone that the bug was exploited.

newsopt 8y ago

Yes, there is a qualitative difference between a plane crashing and people dying and 69 million photos being leaked. If you have trouble understanding the difference you should probably see a therapist.

vernie 8y ago
It's just too bad that all crimes are punished by death. Awfully unfair and disproportionate in most cases.
- newsopt 8y ago
  Nice snarky response, I'm not the person that equated leaking photos to a plane crashing >It's just too bad that all crimes are punished by death. Awfully unfair and disproportionate in most cases. What are you even responding to? Explain this to me I'm too stupid to understand how your comment makes any sense in any context.
  - sctb 8y ago
    Would you please read the guidelines before commenting further? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

vernie 8y ago

Many programmers like to insist that they're engineers and at the same time come up with excuses for why they shouldn't be held to the same standards as other types of engineers.

golemiprague 8y ago
Software development is more like a craft rather than engineering. If you are willing to pay for an app the same money you pay for a bridge than you will get the same quality and rigorous checking. But even then, there are less than 10 types of bridges in the world comparing to software which has to simulate every human activity and sometimes imaginary activities like games, all that in much higher levels of complications, constant changes of requirements and infinitely open for later changes through the life time of the application. Do you really think you can compare those two things?
Retra 8y ago
Some of us just want to be engineers but know full well how difficult that actually is and want to be paid well enough to seriously research that problem. Thus most of us are experimentalists and prototype engineers, not ones making claims strong enough to be liable for.