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The bigger story is they're getting rid of 44,000 employees (nearly a third of their workforce), with the first 10,000 taking voluntary buyouts right now. That'

The bigger story is they're getting rid of 44,000 employees (nearly a third of their workforce), with the first 10,000 taking voluntary buyouts right now. That's after a $4.5 Billion tax cut. Rather than invest in those engineers, they're outsourcing to offshore IT. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/12/verizon-cuts-10000-jobs-and-admits-its-yahooaol-division-is-a-failure/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/12/veriz... https://www.wsj.com/articles/verizons-severance-offer-goes-to-about-44-000-employees-1538587179?mod=article_inline https://www.wsj.com/articles/verizons-severance-offer-goes-t...

Tsubasachan 8y ago
Profit maximization is a basic tenet of capitalism. Verizon serves their shareholders not a country. The alternative is to turn Verizon into a state owned company like Huawei.
- house9-2 8y ago
  > Verizon serves their shareholders not a country. What about their customers? > Profit maximization is a basic tenet of capitalism. Sure, then lets eliminate tax cuts for 'Profit maximization' based corporations and increase their taxes to help the people of this country. I like the fact I live in a Democratic country, the fact that it runs on capitalism, not so much.
- el_benhameen 8y ago
  Verizon and others of its ilk have worked hard to convince people that cutting its taxes would help its employees and the country as a whole, not just (or not even!) its shareholders. This was obviously (and now more obviously) bullshit in pursuit of that same profit maximization, but given how they lobbied for it, I think it's entirely fair to criticize them on this basis.
  - Tsubasachan 8y ago
    Look the American people have voted for a Republican party who approves of lobbying. Don't get angry when companies actually do it and do it well. And the tax cuts were bullshit and many economists said so but the American people voted for it overwhelmingly. Because Americans always vote for tax cuts. Verizon plays the game by the rules and they won.
    - el_benhameen 8y ago
      Look the American people have voted for a Republican party who approves of lobbying. Don't get angry when companies actually do it and do it well. "The American people" is not a singular voting bloc. Those of us who don't vote for such things are well within our rights to get angry, as are those who did vote for the party but feel betrayed by it. the American people voted for it overwhelmingly. Because Americans always vote for tax cuts. The American people largely disapproved of the tax cut, and that has held steady in the year since its passage [1]. California soundly rejected the repeal of its gas tax. Americans don't always vote for tax cuts. Verizon plays the game by the rules and they won. Then let's change the rules? Defeatism can feel good, but it's unhelpful. [1] https://news.gallup.com/poll/243611/disapprove-approve-2017-tax-cuts.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/243611/disapprove-approve-2017-...
      - coolso 8y ago
        >The American people largely disapproved of the tax cut The media spoke negatively - almost to smear campaign levels - about the tax cut from the very beginning. Is it any wonder? >and that has held steady in the year since its passage [1] According to your source, support has increased. It’s still not popular among a majority, but post media smear campaign (mostly) support has gone up from 29% to 39%, and disapproval down from 56% to 46%. That’s pretty big.
        el_benhameen 8y ago
        Can you clarify what you mean by “smear campaign”? The negative stories I read mostly focused on how the tax cut would increase the defecit and debt (which it did [1]), how companies were likely to use it for stock buybacks versus investment or hiring (which they did [2]), and how the tax cut would disproportionately benefit higher earners (which it did [3]). [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/16/trumps-tax-cut-didnt-reduce-the-deficit--despite-his-many-promises.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/16/trumps-tax-cut-didnt-reduce-... [2] https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/10/investing/stock-buybacks-record-tax-cuts/index.html https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/10/investing/stock-buybacks-re... [3] https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/effect-tcja-individual-income-tax-provisions-across-income-groups-and-across-states/full https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/effect-tcja-ind...
lsc 8y ago
periodic reminder: if your employer (especially your private sector, non-union employer) offers you a buyout? Jump on it. After the first round of layoffs, there's a lot more stress, and the severance, almost without exception is a lot less generous for the second round of layoffs. Take the package; find a new job.
- wallacoloo 8y ago
  > Verizon said it would also cut 10,400 jobs through voluntary buyouts — a 6.8 percent reduction in its workforce that will cost the company as much as $2.1 billion in severance charges. Surely this doesn’t mean that each employee who leaves gets to pocket an average of $200,000, right? But where else would this money go?
  - 1024core 8y ago
    They are offering a generous severance, worth up to 60 weeks (of employment) depending on the amount of time you've been there.
    - olyjohn 8y ago
      "three weeks’ pay for each year of service" from the WSJ article.
      - reaperducer 8y ago
        Maybe the rest is in healthcare.
  - Fezzik 8y ago
    Often a severence will also include X months of health insurance, so that could be a good-sized chunk of it.
  - vkou 8y ago
    My father received ~1 month for every year of work at Kodak in severance, when he was laid off. I'd be surprised if a lot of those employees didn't have similar contracts.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
therealdrag0 8y ago
Are most of these employees located in a few cities/regions? Will this spill effect job market?
- maxerickson 8y ago
  Of course it will impact the job market, but probably not in a particularly noticeable way.
maxerickson 8y ago
The buyout was offered to people in management roles. It's really mostly an operating company, not a technology company.
beams_of_light 8y ago
They're not getting rid of 44k employees; they simply offered the voluntary separation package to 44k employees. Of them, around 11k opted in.
- goobynight 8y ago
  Now they'll look at ways of getting rid of (some of) the rest, unless they knew what % would accept and it hit exactly where they wanted.
  - beams_of_light 8y ago
    The latter is the case.
briandear 8y ago
So a tax cut means that unprofitable businesses ought to invest more in those unprofitable businesses? That is some ridiculous logic. Since there is such a “shortage” of engineering talent (to hear the H1 advocates tell it,) those laid off people should have no trouble finding a job with a profitable company.

Tsubasachan 8y ago

Profit maximization is a basic tenet of capitalism. Verizon serves their shareholders not a country. The alternative is to turn Verizon into a state owned company like Huawei.

house9-2 8y ago
> Verizon serves their shareholders not a country. What about their customers? > Profit maximization is a basic tenet of capitalism. Sure, then lets eliminate tax cuts for 'Profit maximization' based corporations and increase their taxes to help the people of this country. I like the fact I live in a Democratic country, the fact that it runs on capitalism, not so much.
el_benhameen 8y ago
Verizon and others of its ilk have worked hard to convince people that cutting its taxes would help its employees and the country as a whole, not just (or not even!) its shareholders. This was obviously (and now more obviously) bullshit in pursuit of that same profit maximization, but given how they lobbied for it, I think it's entirely fair to criticize them on this basis.
- Tsubasachan 8y ago
  Look the American people have voted for a Republican party who approves of lobbying. Don't get angry when companies actually do it and do it well. And the tax cuts were bullshit and many economists said so but the American people voted for it overwhelmingly. Because Americans always vote for tax cuts. Verizon plays the game by the rules and they won.
  - el_benhameen 8y ago
    Look the American people have voted for a Republican party who approves of lobbying. Don't get angry when companies actually do it and do it well. "The American people" is not a singular voting bloc. Those of us who don't vote for such things are well within our rights to get angry, as are those who did vote for the party but feel betrayed by it. the American people voted for it overwhelmingly. Because Americans always vote for tax cuts. The American people largely disapproved of the tax cut, and that has held steady in the year since its passage [1]. California soundly rejected the repeal of its gas tax. Americans don't always vote for tax cuts. Verizon plays the game by the rules and they won. Then let's change the rules? Defeatism can feel good, but it's unhelpful. [1] https://news.gallup.com/poll/243611/disapprove-approve-2017-tax-cuts.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/243611/disapprove-approve-2017-...
    - coolso 8y ago
      >The American people largely disapproved of the tax cut The media spoke negatively - almost to smear campaign levels - about the tax cut from the very beginning. Is it any wonder? >and that has held steady in the year since its passage [1] According to your source, support has increased. It’s still not popular among a majority, but post media smear campaign (mostly) support has gone up from 29% to 39%, and disapproval down from 56% to 46%. That’s pretty big.
      - el_benhameen 8y ago
        Can you clarify what you mean by “smear campaign”? The negative stories I read mostly focused on how the tax cut would increase the defecit and debt (which it did [1]), how companies were likely to use it for stock buybacks versus investment or hiring (which they did [2]), and how the tax cut would disproportionately benefit higher earners (which it did [3]). [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/16/trumps-tax-cut-didnt-reduce-the-deficit--despite-his-many-promises.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/16/trumps-tax-cut-didnt-reduce-... [2] https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/10/investing/stock-buybacks-record-tax-cuts/index.html https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/10/investing/stock-buybacks-re... [3] https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/effect-tcja-individual-income-tax-provisions-across-income-groups-and-across-states/full https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/effect-tcja-ind...

lsc 8y ago

periodic reminder: if your employer (especially your private sector, non-union employer) offers you a buyout? Jump on it. After the first round of layoffs, there's a lot more stress, and the severance, almost without exception is a lot less generous for the second round of layoffs. Take the package; find a new job.

wallacoloo 8y ago
> Verizon said it would also cut 10,400 jobs through voluntary buyouts — a 6.8 percent reduction in its workforce that will cost the company as much as $2.1 billion in severance charges. Surely this doesn’t mean that each employee who leaves gets to pocket an average of $200,000, right? But where else would this money go?
- 1024core 8y ago
  They are offering a generous severance, worth up to 60 weeks (of employment) depending on the amount of time you've been there.
  - olyjohn 8y ago
    "three weeks’ pay for each year of service" from the WSJ article.
    - reaperducer 8y ago
      Maybe the rest is in healthcare.
- Fezzik 8y ago
  Often a severence will also include X months of health insurance, so that could be a good-sized chunk of it.
- vkou 8y ago
  My father received ~1 month for every year of work at Kodak in severance, when he was laid off. I'd be surprised if a lot of those employees didn't have similar contracts.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

therealdrag0 8y ago

Are most of these employees located in a few cities/regions? Will this spill effect job market?

maxerickson 8y ago
Of course it will impact the job market, but probably not in a particularly noticeable way.

maxerickson 8y ago

The buyout was offered to people in management roles. It's really mostly an operating company, not a technology company.

beams_of_light 8y ago

They're not getting rid of 44k employees; they simply offered the voluntary separation package to 44k employees. Of them, around 11k opted in.

goobynight 8y ago
Now they'll look at ways of getting rid of (some of) the rest, unless they knew what % would accept and it hit exactly where they wanted.
- beams_of_light 8y ago
  The latter is the case.

briandear 8y ago

So a tax cut means that unprofitable businesses ought to invest more in those unprofitable businesses? That is some ridiculous logic. Since there is such a “shortage” of engineering talent (to hear the H1 advocates tell it,) those laid off people should have no trouble finding a job with a profitable company.