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MIT and Carmen Ortiz share responsibility for the death of Aaron Schwartz. Threatening the guy with life in prison for downloading academic journals? It's absur

MIT and Carmen Ortiz share responsibility for the death of Aaron Schwartz. Threatening the guy with life in prison for downloading academic journals? It's absurd. Never forgive either, let it haunt them wherever they go.

oh_sigh 8y ago
Come on...what they did was shitty, but Aaron killed himself because he was depressed and suffered frequently from suicidal ideation, literally for years before he even stepped foot into MIT.
- 1000units 8y ago
  He killed himself because he was threatened with life in prison. He may have been particularly vulnerable to these threats, but that only makes them worse. If they had just called him mean names, maybe you'd have a point.
  - oh_sigh 8y ago
    No, he killed himself because he was depressed and had suicidal thoughts. > Swartz declined a plea bargain under which he would have served six months in federal prison. Two days after the prosecution rejected a counter-offer by Swartz, he was found dead in his Brooklyn apartment, where he had hanged himself.[15][16] So, he was facing potentially 6 months in prison. He rejected that, and then killed himself.
    - 1000units 8y ago
      Why do none of the words "plea", "bargain", "six", or "months" appear anywhere in [15] and [16]?
      - oh_sigh 8y ago
        I don't know, but it is reported on elsewhere, for example: https://www.boston.com/uncategorized/noprimarytagmatch/2013/01/14/mit-hacking-case-lawyer-says-aaron-swartz-was-offered-plea-deal-of-six-months-behind-bars https://www.boston.com/uncategorized/noprimarytagmatch/2013/...
        1000units 8y ago
        Perhaps it is an artifact of frantic damage control by a guilty party and this information is not so reliable.
        oh_sigh 8y ago
        What do you mean this information is not so reliable? Just because someone mis-attributed true information on wikipedia has no bearing on the truthiness of the matter. And the information about the rejected plea deal is directly from Aaron's lawyer.
        1000units 8y ago
        It's merely claimed that he made such a statement. Where? To whom (there are multiple authors, one of them?) None of this is indicated. Modern journalism is garbage, and you've already demonstrated the public accounting of this case is poor quality. We can speculate why.
        googlryas 8y ago
        (using a different account because I've apparently posted too much for HN) From the article: > "Swartz’s lead defense attorney, Elliot Peters, said today that both he and Swartz rejected the plea deal offered by the office of US Attorney Carmen Ortiz, and instead were pushing for a trial where federal prosecutors would have been forced to publicly justify their pursuit of Swartz." There are multiple interviews where Elliot Peters makes the same claim. https://www.keker.com/news/news-items/Elliot-Peters-Discusses-Internet-Activist-Aaron-Swartz-Lance-Armstrong-Prosecutorial-Excess- https://www.keker.com/news/news-items/Elliot-Peters-Discusse... http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jan/17/nation/la-na-nn-aaron-swartz-father-20130117 http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jan/17/nation/la-na-nn-aaro... I really have no idea what you're complaining about, or what you expect. Do you need a recorded video of Elliot Peters saying these things about the plea, and then displaying his drivers license and stating his social security number? The way the reporting was done in my original link is completely standard.
    - VectorLock 8y ago
      Its such a shame that he took that ultimate step. He seemed very savvy legally so its odd that he would commit to taking his own life before even being convicted. He wasn't completely backed into a corner, he had options. That alone makes me think the depression and suicidal ideation existed previously.
      - 1000units 8y ago
        It doesn't matter. You can't blame anybody for not being Steel like Shkreli. The aggressions of the justice system were wildly disproportionate and unjustified, and the aggressors are responsible for the consequences of their duress.
        VectorLock 8y ago
        I think his response was more disproportionate than the "aggression" they directed at him. Killing yourself over 6 months in federal prison? Not wanting people to get subpoenaed?
        1000units 8y ago
        Yes, suicide is virtually always a disproportionate response.
        AsyncAwait 8y ago
        They also bankrupted him and threatened him with way more than 6 months. Also, any time in prison for IP violations is a travesty.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - ryanlol 8y ago
    Did Swartz tell you that this was why he killed himself? Or are you just spitting on his grave by suggesting that he was too dumb to understand what sentence he was realistically facing? Swartz had good legal representation, he definitely knew he wasn't in serious trouble. Clearly this guy had been depressed for a long time, he had already posted a suicide note on his blog long before the whole JSTOR thing.
    - 1000units 8y ago
      I think he killed himself immediately after a traumatizing course of events, and people are jumping through hoops to make sure nobody gets blamed. People are really uncomfortable with the idea of being responsible for the world around them to any extent, and just one of the coping mechanisms for this is blunt literalism, "he wasn't threatened with life in prison, only 14 felony convictions and maybe a few years at most!"
      - ryanlol 8y ago
        He killed himself, obviously all of the blame is on him. If he had been locked in a cell when he did it, then it might be realistic to point fingers at others.
        1000units 8y ago
        It's our temptation to think that, being complicit with the corrupt system that destroyed him.
- joemi 8y ago
  I don't know why you're getting downvoted when you're right.
- drb91 8y ago
  Yes, because humans are simple state machines, blame is obvious, and actions of state violence are trivially justifiable.
- acct1771 8y ago
  Probably because he understand humanity so well.

oh_sigh 8y ago

Come on...what they did was shitty, but Aaron killed himself because he was depressed and suffered frequently from suicidal ideation, literally for years before he even stepped foot into MIT.

1000units 8y ago
He killed himself because he was threatened with life in prison. He may have been particularly vulnerable to these threats, but that only makes them worse. If they had just called him mean names, maybe you'd have a point.
- oh_sigh 8y ago
  No, he killed himself because he was depressed and had suicidal thoughts. > Swartz declined a plea bargain under which he would have served six months in federal prison. Two days after the prosecution rejected a counter-offer by Swartz, he was found dead in his Brooklyn apartment, where he had hanged himself.[15][16] So, he was facing potentially 6 months in prison. He rejected that, and then killed himself.
  - 1000units 8y ago
    Why do none of the words "plea", "bargain", "six", or "months" appear anywhere in [15] and [16]?
    - oh_sigh 8y ago
      I don't know, but it is reported on elsewhere, for example: https://www.boston.com/uncategorized/noprimarytagmatch/2013/01/14/mit-hacking-case-lawyer-says-aaron-swartz-was-offered-plea-deal-of-six-months-behind-bars https://www.boston.com/uncategorized/noprimarytagmatch/2013/...
      - 1000units 8y ago
        Perhaps it is an artifact of frantic damage control by a guilty party and this information is not so reliable.
        oh_sigh 8y ago
        What do you mean this information is not so reliable? Just because someone mis-attributed true information on wikipedia has no bearing on the truthiness of the matter. And the information about the rejected plea deal is directly from Aaron's lawyer.
        1000units 8y ago
        It's merely claimed that he made such a statement. Where? To whom (there are multiple authors, one of them?) None of this is indicated. Modern journalism is garbage, and you've already demonstrated the public accounting of this case is poor quality. We can speculate why.
        googlryas 8y ago
        (using a different account because I've apparently posted too much for HN) From the article: > "Swartz’s lead defense attorney, Elliot Peters, said today that both he and Swartz rejected the plea deal offered by the office of US Attorney Carmen Ortiz, and instead were pushing for a trial where federal prosecutors would have been forced to publicly justify their pursuit of Swartz." There are multiple interviews where Elliot Peters makes the same claim. https://www.keker.com/news/news-items/Elliot-Peters-Discusses-Internet-Activist-Aaron-Swartz-Lance-Armstrong-Prosecutorial-Excess- https://www.keker.com/news/news-items/Elliot-Peters-Discusse... http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jan/17/nation/la-na-nn-aaron-swartz-father-20130117 http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jan/17/nation/la-na-nn-aaro... I really have no idea what you're complaining about, or what you expect. Do you need a recorded video of Elliot Peters saying these things about the plea, and then displaying his drivers license and stating his social security number? The way the reporting was done in my original link is completely standard.
  - VectorLock 8y ago
    Its such a shame that he took that ultimate step. He seemed very savvy legally so its odd that he would commit to taking his own life before even being convicted. He wasn't completely backed into a corner, he had options. That alone makes me think the depression and suicidal ideation existed previously.
    - 1000units 8y ago
      It doesn't matter. You can't blame anybody for not being Steel like Shkreli. The aggressions of the justice system were wildly disproportionate and unjustified, and the aggressors are responsible for the consequences of their duress.
      - VectorLock 8y ago
        I think his response was more disproportionate than the "aggression" they directed at him. Killing yourself over 6 months in federal prison? Not wanting people to get subpoenaed?
        1000units 8y ago
        Yes, suicide is virtually always a disproportionate response.
        AsyncAwait 8y ago
        They also bankrupted him and threatened him with way more than 6 months. Also, any time in prison for IP violations is a travesty.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- ryanlol 8y ago
  Did Swartz tell you that this was why he killed himself? Or are you just spitting on his grave by suggesting that he was too dumb to understand what sentence he was realistically facing? Swartz had good legal representation, he definitely knew he wasn't in serious trouble. Clearly this guy had been depressed for a long time, he had already posted a suicide note on his blog long before the whole JSTOR thing.
  - 1000units 8y ago
    I think he killed himself immediately after a traumatizing course of events, and people are jumping through hoops to make sure nobody gets blamed. People are really uncomfortable with the idea of being responsible for the world around them to any extent, and just one of the coping mechanisms for this is blunt literalism, "he wasn't threatened with life in prison, only 14 felony convictions and maybe a few years at most!"
    - ryanlol 8y ago
      He killed himself, obviously all of the blame is on him. If he had been locked in a cell when he did it, then it might be realistic to point fingers at others.
      - 1000units 8y ago
        It's our temptation to think that, being complicit with the corrupt system that destroyed him.
joemi 8y ago
I don't know why you're getting downvoted when you're right.
drb91 8y ago
Yes, because humans are simple state machines, blame is obvious, and actions of state violence are trivially justifiable.
acct1771 8y ago
Probably because he understand humanity so well.