4 ms·

Yeah, Linus is in a power position and could lean on teams to create his vision of Linux on the desktop. But he's a very tech oriented guy and that's ok. He has

by chomp 8y ago

Yeah, Linus is in a power position and could lean on teams to create his vision of Linux on the desktop. But he's a very tech oriented guy and that's ok. He has a tech vision of what the core of the OS should do, and I think the community needs that as much as a person who guides the frontend vision (which is absent for now).

stickfigure 8y ago
Also... this is the guy who invented git. I'm not really sure we want him working on a desktop UX.
- ivalm 8y ago
  I mean... I like git... Linux kernel and git are perhaps the two most constant aspects of my job. What is the problem?
  - RussianCow 8y ago
    The point is that inventing Git and designing a good UX require completely different skill sets.
  - chipperyman573 8y ago
    Git is easily (edit: one of) the best version-control software available, hands down. But, you can't deny that it's very difficult to use. There's an incredibly steep learning curve and the software is very unforgiving. This can be argued to be a good thing (git just gives you the tools to shoot your own foot), but for an average user, a DE needs to be easier to use than git. I guess what I'm trying to say is, git is great for experienced users, but most users don't want to have to be experienced just to use a computer.
    - doubleunplussed 8y ago
      I wouldn't say easily. Mercurial has a credible claim to that title as well, if you ignore network effects that favour using git.
      - chipperyman573 8y ago
        That's fair. I updated my post to reflect that.
    - jnurmine 8y ago
      Git has a learning curve, yes. Everything has a learning curve. It helps to actually read the documentation, to go through a few tutorials and to generally play around with Git. Is it intuitive without prior experience? No. Nothing nontrivial is. As an example: I have not grokked Blender though I have tried a few times. But I have tried it fully intuitively, just exploring the UI without really reading documentation at all (when I have time I will study it more). Does the UX make sense? No, not to me. Does it mean Blender has a bad UX? No, I don't think so! It has a learning curve like everything else, and learning it is something I have to do if I want to be able to use it. I cannot expect someone else to learn it for me.
      - chipperyman573 8y ago
        >It helps to actually read the documentation, to go through a few tutorials and to generally play around with Git. Yeah, that's the problem. People don't want to do that. Keep in mind, you're not talking about people you find on HN. You're talking about Grandma Sally and Aunt Susan. These are people who can barely use Gmail. They don't want to crack open the documentation
        jnurmine 8y ago
        Why would they use Git at all, then?
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
        jnurmine 8y ago
        My point is: people who actually need software version control to get something done are perfectly capable of learning to use Git, warts and all, in 2-4 days which includes reading some of the documentation and playing around with it. Sure, they might have to refer to the documentation for some time after, and also have a personal "cheat sheet" for commands, but I completely believe it is doable, and over a slightly longer period of time they will not need documentation or cheat sheets at all. Arguing that people, who are implied to not need software version control to begin with, would consider Git difficult to learn is a bit strange argument.
  - groestl 8y ago
    I like git as well but UX wise... just look at the number of different syntaxes to delete something.
  - perfmode 8y ago
    Git doesn’t scale. FB and Google have had to stray from the beaten path. Git, with its limitations, imposes non-trivial workflow constraints on millions of developers worldwide. It’s far from ideal. It’s an application ripe for disruption.

by chomp 8y ago

stickfigure 8y ago

Also... this is the guy who invented git. I'm not really sure we want him working on a desktop UX.

ivalm 8y ago
I mean... I like git... Linux kernel and git are perhaps the two most constant aspects of my job. What is the problem?
- RussianCow 8y ago
  The point is that inventing Git and designing a good UX require completely different skill sets.
- chipperyman573 8y ago
  Git is easily (edit: one of) the best version-control software available, hands down. But, you can't deny that it's very difficult to use. There's an incredibly steep learning curve and the software is very unforgiving. This can be argued to be a good thing (git just gives you the tools to shoot your own foot), but for an average user, a DE needs to be easier to use than git. I guess what I'm trying to say is, git is great for experienced users, but most users don't want to have to be experienced just to use a computer.
  - doubleunplussed 8y ago
    I wouldn't say easily. Mercurial has a credible claim to that title as well, if you ignore network effects that favour using git.
    - chipperyman573 8y ago
      That's fair. I updated my post to reflect that.
  - jnurmine 8y ago
    Git has a learning curve, yes. Everything has a learning curve. It helps to actually read the documentation, to go through a few tutorials and to generally play around with Git. Is it intuitive without prior experience? No. Nothing nontrivial is. As an example: I have not grokked Blender though I have tried a few times. But I have tried it fully intuitively, just exploring the UI without really reading documentation at all (when I have time I will study it more). Does the UX make sense? No, not to me. Does it mean Blender has a bad UX? No, I don't think so! It has a learning curve like everything else, and learning it is something I have to do if I want to be able to use it. I cannot expect someone else to learn it for me.
    - chipperyman573 8y ago
      >It helps to actually read the documentation, to go through a few tutorials and to generally play around with Git. Yeah, that's the problem. People don't want to do that. Keep in mind, you're not talking about people you find on HN. You're talking about Grandma Sally and Aunt Susan. These are people who can barely use Gmail. They don't want to crack open the documentation
      - jnurmine 8y ago
        Why would they use Git at all, then?
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
        jnurmine 8y ago
        My point is: people who actually need software version control to get something done are perfectly capable of learning to use Git, warts and all, in 2-4 days which includes reading some of the documentation and playing around with it. Sure, they might have to refer to the documentation for some time after, and also have a personal "cheat sheet" for commands, but I completely believe it is doable, and over a slightly longer period of time they will not need documentation or cheat sheets at all. Arguing that people, who are implied to not need software version control to begin with, would consider Git difficult to learn is a bit strange argument.
- groestl 8y ago
  I like git as well but UX wise... just look at the number of different syntaxes to delete something.
- perfmode 8y ago
  Git doesn’t scale. FB and Google have had to stray from the beaten path. Git, with its limitations, imposes non-trivial workflow constraints on millions of developers worldwide. It’s far from ideal. It’s an application ripe for disruption.