6 ms·

Why is this comment being downvoted?

by jimbo1qaz 8y ago

tedunangst 8y ago
Perhaps a direct quote from prop 47 would clarify how it makes theft not a crime.
- zdragnar 8y ago
  Theft of goods valued under $950 was reclassified from a felony to a misdemeanor, regardless of what the item in question is (a case in 2017 was a car!). So, still a crime, on par with jaywalking and littering (which, in Cali, is a minimim $100 fine + 8 hours community service). And yet, we're talking about things that could be Christmas gifts, baby food, medicine, people's means of transportation, you name it.
  - mikeash 8y ago
    Is jaywalking really a misdemeanor? That would be incredibly harsh.
    - zdragnar 8y ago
      Not in California, same for littering (the reference to Cali was only for the fine + hours of community service). However, it is in Nevada: https://www.shouselaw.com/nevada/misdemeanor-law.html https://www.shouselaw.com/nevada/misdemeanor-law.html and various other jurisdictions.
      - mikeash 8y ago
        Interesting, apparently because misdemeanor is the lowest possible category. Most places classify it as an “infraction” which is a step below a misdemeanor. I bet that has caused some unfortunate fuss with people “convicted of a misdemeanor” for a simple speeding ticket trying to explain it in a state where a misdemeanor is something more serious.
  - stickfigure 8y ago
    on par with jaywalking and littering This is false. Jaywalking and littering (and most traffic offenses) are infractions, not misdemeanors. Misdemeanors are still serious crimes that can result in jailtime.
    - zdragnar 8y ago
      In California, sure. That is not true everywhere. There's occasional stories of arrests over jaywalking in Atlanta and Detroit, and Nevada does list it as a misdemeanor, on par with: * solicitation of prostitution * DUI with no injuries * trespass * battery domestic violence (with no injuries) https://www.shouselaw.com/nevada/misdemeanor-law.html https://www.shouselaw.com/nevada/misdemeanor-law.html Same goes for littering in assorted jurisdictions. I'll concede that lumping those two as examples in a discussion involving Cali as context was misleading. The fine + 8 hours community service is for the infraction of littering in california. That is not to say that they are not misdemeanors elsewhere.
- dottrap 8y ago
  I was curious about that comment so I Googled it. Here is the top hit which has fairly good depth: https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/05/14/shoplifting-california-prop-47-reduced-penalties/ https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/05/14/shoplifting-cal... The summary seems to be that Prop 47 treats shoplifting under $950 of value as a misdemeanor. As a result, law enforcement is unlikely to pursue and punish, so thieves get away scot-free. Additionally, organized crime has exploited this and can easily recruit people for their shoplifting rings. The article reports that retailers have seen a rise in shoplifting since the law took effect. So presumably, package theft of anything below the value of $950 from a door step (not a federal USPS mailbox) would only be a misdemeanor in California.

Why is this comment being downvoted?

tedunangst 8y ago

Perhaps a direct quote from prop 47 would clarify how it makes theft not a crime.

zdragnar 8y ago
Theft of goods valued under $950 was reclassified from a felony to a misdemeanor, regardless of what the item in question is (a case in 2017 was a car!). So, still a crime, on par with jaywalking and littering (which, in Cali, is a minimim $100 fine + 8 hours community service). And yet, we're talking about things that could be Christmas gifts, baby food, medicine, people's means of transportation, you name it.
- mikeash 8y ago
  Is jaywalking really a misdemeanor? That would be incredibly harsh.
  - zdragnar 8y ago
    Not in California, same for littering (the reference to Cali was only for the fine + hours of community service). However, it is in Nevada: https://www.shouselaw.com/nevada/misdemeanor-law.html https://www.shouselaw.com/nevada/misdemeanor-law.html and various other jurisdictions.
    - mikeash 8y ago
      Interesting, apparently because misdemeanor is the lowest possible category. Most places classify it as an “infraction” which is a step below a misdemeanor. I bet that has caused some unfortunate fuss with people “convicted of a misdemeanor” for a simple speeding ticket trying to explain it in a state where a misdemeanor is something more serious.
- stickfigure 8y ago
  on par with jaywalking and littering This is false. Jaywalking and littering (and most traffic offenses) are infractions, not misdemeanors. Misdemeanors are still serious crimes that can result in jailtime.
  - zdragnar 8y ago
    In California, sure. That is not true everywhere. There's occasional stories of arrests over jaywalking in Atlanta and Detroit, and Nevada does list it as a misdemeanor, on par with: * solicitation of prostitution * DUI with no injuries * trespass * battery domestic violence (with no injuries) https://www.shouselaw.com/nevada/misdemeanor-law.html https://www.shouselaw.com/nevada/misdemeanor-law.html Same goes for littering in assorted jurisdictions. I'll concede that lumping those two as examples in a discussion involving Cali as context was misleading. The fine + 8 hours community service is for the infraction of littering in california. That is not to say that they are not misdemeanors elsewhere.
dottrap 8y ago
I was curious about that comment so I Googled it. Here is the top hit which has fairly good depth: https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/05/14/shoplifting-california-prop-47-reduced-penalties/ https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/05/14/shoplifting-cal... The summary seems to be that Prop 47 treats shoplifting under $950 of value as a misdemeanor. As a result, law enforcement is unlikely to pursue and punish, so thieves get away scot-free. Additionally, organized crime has exploited this and can easily recruit people for their shoplifting rings. The article reports that retailers have seen a rise in shoplifting since the law took effect. So presumably, package theft of anything below the value of $950 from a door step (not a federal USPS mailbox) would only be a misdemeanor in California.