3 ms·

While visiting, am I free to loudly denounce the government?

by sgustard 8y ago

crimsonalucard 8y ago
No you're not. Snowden wasn't allowed to denounce the government either.
- EdwardDiego 8y ago
  He was, just not with a bunch of classified documents in hand.
  - crimsonalucard 8y ago
    Those classified documents showed how the government was spying on their own citizens and breaking the law. He was whistleblowing. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/07/edward-snowden-whistleblower-nsa-bulk-surveillance-illegal https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/07/edward-snowden... He is literally not allowed to denounce the government for breaking their own laws.
    - EdwardDiego 8y ago
      That's what classifying documents is for - to keep them secret. He didn't get in trouble for "denouncing the government", he got in trouble for publishing classified documents. I agree with what Snowden did, and respect him for having the courage to do so, but I'm not sure if you're trying to demonise the US government or legitimise the Chinese one by claiming the prosecuting someone for publishing classified documents is equivalent to prosecuting someone for disagreeing with the ruling party.
      - dorgo 8y ago
        How convinient. If I had broken the law I would also clasify all documents which could prove it.
      - crimsonalucard 8y ago
        If you sign an NDA with a company then violate that NDA by whistleblowing, you are protected under US law. Snowden has no such protection.
sonnyblarney 8y ago
No, but oddly, you can do almost anything else. Most activity in China does not feel as though it's too intruded upon by the gov.. If you don't run afoul of the party apparatus, it's not unlike many other places. I'm not justifying anything other than to say it's not a dystopia for most.
- crimsonalucard 8y ago
  This is exactly what I'm saying. It's like when you walk into your work office. Not smart to talk shit about your job in the office. China is not America, but it's not dystopia either.
  - ardy42 8y ago
    > but it's not dystopia either. A dystopia doesn't have to be as all-permeating and starkly obvious as the one depicted in 1984 to be a dystopia.
- sgustard 8y ago
  "Not dystopian except for the thought police" doesn't cut it for me.

While visiting, am I free to loudly denounce the government?

crimsonalucard 8y ago

No you're not. Snowden wasn't allowed to denounce the government either.

EdwardDiego 8y ago
He was, just not with a bunch of classified documents in hand.
- crimsonalucard 8y ago
  Those classified documents showed how the government was spying on their own citizens and breaking the law. He was whistleblowing. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/07/edward-snowden-whistleblower-nsa-bulk-surveillance-illegal https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/07/edward-snowden... He is literally not allowed to denounce the government for breaking their own laws.
  - EdwardDiego 8y ago
    That's what classifying documents is for - to keep them secret. He didn't get in trouble for "denouncing the government", he got in trouble for publishing classified documents. I agree with what Snowden did, and respect him for having the courage to do so, but I'm not sure if you're trying to demonise the US government or legitimise the Chinese one by claiming the prosecuting someone for publishing classified documents is equivalent to prosecuting someone for disagreeing with the ruling party.
    - dorgo 8y ago
      How convinient. If I had broken the law I would also clasify all documents which could prove it.
    - crimsonalucard 8y ago
      If you sign an NDA with a company then violate that NDA by whistleblowing, you are protected under US law. Snowden has no such protection.

sonnyblarney 8y ago

No, but oddly, you can do almost anything else. Most activity in China does not feel as though it's too intruded upon by the gov.. If you don't run afoul of the party apparatus, it's not unlike many other places. I'm not justifying anything other than to say it's not a dystopia for most.

crimsonalucard 8y ago
This is exactly what I'm saying. It's like when you walk into your work office. Not smart to talk shit about your job in the office. China is not America, but it's not dystopia either.
- ardy42 8y ago
  > but it's not dystopia either. A dystopia doesn't have to be as all-permeating and starkly obvious as the one depicted in 1984 to be a dystopia.
sgustard 8y ago
"Not dystopian except for the thought police" doesn't cut it for me.