5 ms·

Meanwhile, here in Minneapolis (really could apply to any upper Midwest city like Chicago, Milwaukee, Madison, etc.): Pros: - If you like seasons, you get the

Meanwhile, here in Minneapolis (really could apply to any upper Midwest city like Chicago, Milwaukee, Madison, etc.): Pros: - If you like seasons, you get them. - Excellent beer. Many bars. Great nitelife. - Clean. No poop on the streets, even in the worse parts of the city. - Great public transportation (except Milwaukee). - Cheap rent (2BR for $1500 along the river with a view of the skyline) - Many excellent CS departments in-state and in the states surrounding. (UW-Madison, UIUC, UMN) Cons: - Tech scene is slowly simmering. Madison's is growing like a weed, but elsewhere it's quite slow. - Not as much outdoorsey stuff to do as in the Pacific Northwest, but there's still enough to do (skiing, fishing, hiking, biking, etc. -- just not on 14kfoot mountains)

kgermino 16y ago
Probably should put snowy winters under cons too. I'm from Chicago and quite frankly don't think that I could live somewhere without a real winter but I'm fairly certain the rest of the country thinks we're nuts.
look_lookatme 16y ago
Was recently in Minneapolis and can't say enough nice things about it. You could certainly live a nice life there if you had a small shop or are solo/remote (my situation, can't speak to a larger startup). It could even be a great place to live and work in temporarily. However, I did make visit before the winter. Not sure how I'd feel about that aspect.
jfb 16y ago
I concur. I loved living in Minneapolis, and I go back at least yearly. But the winters are awfully long, which has to at least rate a mention as a con. Overall, though, I much preferred Minneapolis to San Francisco from a livability standard. It's also an excellent bike town, much safer and less idiotic than San Francisco.
showerst 16y ago
...and incredible, painful winters. Minneapolis is really really nice... from May to September =).
jbseek 16y ago
+1 for Minneapolis i live here and love this city, lived in other cities with better tech scenes, but imo this town has alot to offer. yellowblkpk i'm assuming you live in the twin cities too, do we have good meetups tailored to an HN like community here? i haven't found anything good yet.
- varikin 16y ago
  Check out MinneBar (http://minnebar.org/ http://minnebar.org/) and the other stuff organized on that website. Plus there are a ton of user groups, Ruby (RUM), Groovy (GUM), Python (PyMNtos), Wordpress, PHP, ObjC, Flash, .NET, JS, Startup ones, and more, lots more. If you are so inclined, RUM & MinneBar/Demo are great places to start networking. In fact, FanChatter, a 2009 YCombinator startup if from Minneapolis and Luke Francl helps organize the MinneBar/Demo stuff. We are here, come find us:) I organize PyMNtos
  - jbseek 16y ago
    varikin thanks alot i did not know about minnebar, checking it out.
    - varikin 16y ago
      You are welcome. There is plenty going on in the area, you just have to find it.
- bjhess 16y ago
  +1 for MinneBar (one of the largest BarCamps in the world) and RUM. These events helped change my career.
- Pro777 16y ago
  I want to throw out a plug for my meetup group, http://pubstandards.mn http://pubstandards.mn we are fun, and techie, and we drink beers
rdouble 16y ago
I'm from MN and my family still lives in and around Minneapolis. It's a great area, if you can handle the winter. The main con for a hacker is that the tech scene is grim. The jobs are very boring and the salaries in general are pretty bad. In addition, the jobs that do exist are usually really out in the burbs. Every so often I go through the motions of creating a cost of living spreadsheet and even with the cheaper cost of housing, when I factor in car ownership and utilities I still seem to come out behind with the lower salaries. On the other hand, the bar seems to be pretty low for getting a home loan. I have a college friend who is an unemployed music instructor who "owns" a home in Powderhorn, and the person who cuts my hair in Brooklyn actually lives in Northeast and makes enough to money cutting hair 5 days a month in Brooklyn to cover her mortgage. I don't agree that MPLS has great nightlife but there is a much better local music scene than any other place I've ever lived. The reason is that you can afford to rent a house with a basement in which to practice your drum kit on a drummer's salary. I also would not say there is great public transportation. The bike friendliness is awesome, though. It's a little odd to put the whole north midwest into one group, each of those towns are hundreds of miles apart from each other. The culture can be quite different. I never felt MPLS had much in common with Chicago, for example.
- yellowbkpk 16y ago
  The tech scene isn't grim, I would say it's bad but getting better. I recently got a job at a fairly young company doing pretty exciting and interesting stuff. It's not quite as fresh as a startup but is much better than Target or 3M or any other behemoth. You're right though, the commutes are tricky since the metro area is pretty big and the jobs are spread out everywhere. Nitelife, music scene, etc. are all criteria I pulled from Joe's article. I'm not particularly into the "bar scene", but I do know that entertainment (theater, music, etc.) is top notch. I agree that bunching all of these cities together is kind of dodgy, but I get the feeling that most everyone that writes posts like Joe's are from the edges of the country and I personally would love to see the middle of the country represented more here. So I grouped the entire middle together. :)
- aaronbrethorst 16y ago
  This is exactly why I left Minneapolis for Seattle as soon as I had my degree. That, and the sushi is generally bad.
johngalt 16y ago
Just to stress Minneapolis has killer public transit. Other commenters have mentioned the brutally cold winters (seriously spit goes clink), but they fail to mention that the summers suck too. Humid and over a hundred. Don't bother fighting, the mosquitos will win. Land of 10,000 standing pools of water! I'd rather spend a summer in Phoenix.
dangrover 16y ago
Is the public transit really that great? I was looking at the Wikipedia article and it looks like you guys just have one light rail line and some commuters. Can you actually get to all the places you need without a car?
- rdouble 16y ago
  The public transit in the Twin Cities is great... when compared to say... Scottsdale, Arizona. There's a light rail that goes from downtown to the airport and a bus system. In my experience you can get cross town faster on a bicycle than you can on a bus.
- cmelbye 16y ago
  The public transit is terrible. There's one light rail line.
schmichael 16y ago
I live in Portland but my wife's family is in Minneapolis, so I thought I'd contrast the 2 a bit: In Portland you can go out for a wonderful $50+ per plate meal in t-shirt, jeans, and a multi-inch-long beard. In Minneapolis the only other bearded guy in the bar I was at was the drunk that wandered in off the street and promptly got thrown out, and I think his beard was better groomed than mine. Definitely the cleanest city I've ever been in. However, when I asked for local beer, I was given a bottle some fairly unexciting porter from New York for $8. A 22oz bottle of Deschutes Abyss costs $11 in Portland...I didn't want to become a beer snob; it's just hard not to. Minneapolis is (or at least seems) far more diverse than Portland. Except for certain areas in North and far SE, Portland is excruciatingly white. There may not be any 14k foot mountains in the Midwest, but pretty much the entire northeast corner of Minnesota is covered in forests, lakes, and parks. Not the Pacific Northwest but still impressive. Minneapolis also recently stole Bicycling Magazine's #1 Bike City award from Portland. I think that was enough to scare our mayor into raiding the sewer fund to improve the bike infrastructure. I saw a hipster in Minneapolis riding his fixie in just a hoodie (no gloves) in sub-20 degree weather with snow on the ground... It may be cold there, but the natives don't seem to mind.
- dasil003 16y ago
  > However, when I asked for local beer, I was given a bottle some fairly unexciting porter from New York for $8. Not sure where you went, because even most chains have Summit in the twin cities. And you can definitely find places that at least come close to stacking up against the Colorado/Oregon scenes. > I saw a hipster in Minneapolis riding his fixie in just a hoodie (no gloves) in sub-20 degree weather with snow on the ground... It may be cold there, but the natives don't seem to mind. Also, they plow the bike paths with bobcats, often faster than the roads. Studded tires are rarely needed, although watch out for hardened ice shelves flinging you into the middle of the lane :)
raster 16y ago
I'll just pipe in for Milwaukee's tech scene. We've been holding BarCampMilwaukee every year since 2006. We also have Web414, a monthly meetup of web nerds, as well as more specific meetups for Drupal, Ruby, .NET, PHP, as well as Web Design Meetups. There are occasional DevHouses and Hacker House events, as well as co-working space and Milwaukee Makerspace is opening this month. I'm not as familiar with Madison but there's a scene there as well. They just had their 3rd BarCamp in August, and Web608 is a sister group to Web414. There's Ignite Madison and probably more, but I don't even live there. If you want a tech scene to happen, you need to WORK to make it happen. Or just complain about it and move to a city where someone else has already done all the work.

kgermino 16y ago

Probably should put snowy winters under cons too. I'm from Chicago and quite frankly don't think that I could live somewhere without a real winter but I'm fairly certain the rest of the country thinks we're nuts.

look_lookatme 16y ago

Was recently in Minneapolis and can't say enough nice things about it. You could certainly live a nice life there if you had a small shop or are solo/remote (my situation, can't speak to a larger startup). It could even be a great place to live and work in temporarily. However, I did make visit before the winter. Not sure how I'd feel about that aspect.

jfb 16y ago

I concur. I loved living in Minneapolis, and I go back at least yearly. But the winters are awfully long, which has to at least rate a mention as a con. Overall, though, I much preferred Minneapolis to San Francisco from a livability standard. It's also an excellent bike town, much safer and less idiotic than San Francisco.

showerst 16y ago

...and incredible, painful winters. Minneapolis is really really nice... from May to September =).

jbseek 16y ago

+1 for Minneapolis i live here and love this city, lived in other cities with better tech scenes, but imo this town has alot to offer. yellowblkpk i'm assuming you live in the twin cities too, do we have good meetups tailored to an HN like community here? i haven't found anything good yet.

varikin 16y ago
Check out MinneBar (http://minnebar.org/ http://minnebar.org/) and the other stuff organized on that website. Plus there are a ton of user groups, Ruby (RUM), Groovy (GUM), Python (PyMNtos), Wordpress, PHP, ObjC, Flash, .NET, JS, Startup ones, and more, lots more. If you are so inclined, RUM & MinneBar/Demo are great places to start networking. In fact, FanChatter, a 2009 YCombinator startup if from Minneapolis and Luke Francl helps organize the MinneBar/Demo stuff. We are here, come find us:) I organize PyMNtos
- jbseek 16y ago
  varikin thanks alot i did not know about minnebar, checking it out.
  - varikin 16y ago
    You are welcome. There is plenty going on in the area, you just have to find it.
bjhess 16y ago
+1 for MinneBar (one of the largest BarCamps in the world) and RUM. These events helped change my career.
Pro777 16y ago
I want to throw out a plug for my meetup group, http://pubstandards.mn http://pubstandards.mn we are fun, and techie, and we drink beers

rdouble 16y ago

I'm from MN and my family still lives in and around Minneapolis. It's a great area, if you can handle the winter. The main con for a hacker is that the tech scene is grim. The jobs are very boring and the salaries in general are pretty bad. In addition, the jobs that do exist are usually really out in the burbs. Every so often I go through the motions of creating a cost of living spreadsheet and even with the cheaper cost of housing, when I factor in car ownership and utilities I still seem to come out behind with the lower salaries. On the other hand, the bar seems to be pretty low for getting a home loan. I have a college friend who is an unemployed music instructor who "owns" a home in Powderhorn, and the person who cuts my hair in Brooklyn actually lives in Northeast and makes enough to money cutting hair 5 days a month in Brooklyn to cover her mortgage. I don't agree that MPLS has great nightlife but there is a much better local music scene than any other place I've ever lived. The reason is that you can afford to rent a house with a basement in which to practice your drum kit on a drummer's salary. I also would not say there is great public transportation. The bike friendliness is awesome, though. It's a little odd to put the whole north midwest into one group, each of those towns are hundreds of miles apart from each other. The culture can be quite different. I never felt MPLS had much in common with Chicago, for example.

yellowbkpk 16y ago
The tech scene isn't grim, I would say it's bad but getting better. I recently got a job at a fairly young company doing pretty exciting and interesting stuff. It's not quite as fresh as a startup but is much better than Target or 3M or any other behemoth. You're right though, the commutes are tricky since the metro area is pretty big and the jobs are spread out everywhere. Nitelife, music scene, etc. are all criteria I pulled from Joe's article. I'm not particularly into the "bar scene", but I do know that entertainment (theater, music, etc.) is top notch. I agree that bunching all of these cities together is kind of dodgy, but I get the feeling that most everyone that writes posts like Joe's are from the edges of the country and I personally would love to see the middle of the country represented more here. So I grouped the entire middle together. :)
aaronbrethorst 16y ago
This is exactly why I left Minneapolis for Seattle as soon as I had my degree. That, and the sushi is generally bad.

johngalt 16y ago

Just to stress Minneapolis has killer public transit. Other commenters have mentioned the brutally cold winters (seriously spit goes clink), but they fail to mention that the summers suck too. Humid and over a hundred. Don't bother fighting, the mosquitos will win. Land of 10,000 standing pools of water! I'd rather spend a summer in Phoenix.

dangrover 16y ago

Is the public transit really that great? I was looking at the Wikipedia article and it looks like you guys just have one light rail line and some commuters. Can you actually get to all the places you need without a car?

rdouble 16y ago
The public transit in the Twin Cities is great... when compared to say... Scottsdale, Arizona. There's a light rail that goes from downtown to the airport and a bus system. In my experience you can get cross town faster on a bicycle than you can on a bus.
cmelbye 16y ago
The public transit is terrible. There's one light rail line.

schmichael 16y ago

I live in Portland but my wife's family is in Minneapolis, so I thought I'd contrast the 2 a bit: In Portland you can go out for a wonderful $50+ per plate meal in t-shirt, jeans, and a multi-inch-long beard. In Minneapolis the only other bearded guy in the bar I was at was the drunk that wandered in off the street and promptly got thrown out, and I think his beard was better groomed than mine. Definitely the cleanest city I've ever been in. However, when I asked for local beer, I was given a bottle some fairly unexciting porter from New York for $8. A 22oz bottle of Deschutes Abyss costs $11 in Portland...I didn't want to become a beer snob; it's just hard not to. Minneapolis is (or at least seems) far more diverse than Portland. Except for certain areas in North and far SE, Portland is excruciatingly white. There may not be any 14k foot mountains in the Midwest, but pretty much the entire northeast corner of Minnesota is covered in forests, lakes, and parks. Not the Pacific Northwest but still impressive. Minneapolis also recently stole Bicycling Magazine's #1 Bike City award from Portland. I think that was enough to scare our mayor into raiding the sewer fund to improve the bike infrastructure. I saw a hipster in Minneapolis riding his fixie in just a hoodie (no gloves) in sub-20 degree weather with snow on the ground... It may be cold there, but the natives don't seem to mind.

dasil003 16y ago
> However, when I asked for local beer, I was given a bottle some fairly unexciting porter from New York for $8. Not sure where you went, because even most chains have Summit in the twin cities. And you can definitely find places that at least come close to stacking up against the Colorado/Oregon scenes. > I saw a hipster in Minneapolis riding his fixie in just a hoodie (no gloves) in sub-20 degree weather with snow on the ground... It may be cold there, but the natives don't seem to mind. Also, they plow the bike paths with bobcats, often faster than the roads. Studded tires are rarely needed, although watch out for hardened ice shelves flinging you into the middle of the lane :)

raster 16y ago

I'll just pipe in for Milwaukee's tech scene. We've been holding BarCampMilwaukee every year since 2006. We also have Web414, a monthly meetup of web nerds, as well as more specific meetups for Drupal, Ruby, .NET, PHP, as well as Web Design Meetups. There are occasional DevHouses and Hacker House events, as well as co-working space and Milwaukee Makerspace is opening this month. I'm not as familiar with Madison but there's a scene there as well. They just had their 3rd BarCamp in August, and Web608 is a sister group to Web414. There's Ignite Madison and probably more, but I don't even live there. If you want a tech scene to happen, you need to WORK to make it happen. Or just complain about it and move to a city where someone else has already done all the work.