4 ms·

Since there's nobody else responsible for releasing Apple's closed source OS, what makes you think Apple is not to blame on this?

zimpenfish 8y ago
Perhaps Nvidia are writing drivers that don't conform to the guidelines Apple provide for approval? Maybe they're trying to pull a Logitech and include lots of data gathering that Apple object to. Or they're ignoring things like events from power management. Or their drivers are just shitty Mojave citizens. Or they're trying to force a Mojave equivalent of GeForce Experience to be installed with their drivers. If Nvidia are being dicks in the face of reasonable requests, why would that be Apple's fault?
- bjpbakker 8y ago
  > If Nvidia are being dicks in the face of reasonable requests, why would that be Apple's fault? Because Apple sold the hardware /with/ the software, and now they completely broke that (<5 year old) hardware?
  - joshstrange 8y ago
    Point of clarification, the article does not mention and I have no reason to suspect that Apple broke hardware they themselves sold. In fact the article does seem to point out there is support for specific Nvidia cards that Apple sold or approved. Also I find it rather impossible to believe that Nvidia couldn't release something that would restore this ability. Would a user need to disable some security feature temporarily to be able to install it? Maybe, but that's the price you pay for unsupported hardware. Apple got burned hard [0] by Nvidia and swore off them back around 2009. And Linux Torvald also called them out back in 2013ish IIRC. Nvidia is not a "good" company. Now people have be running things unsupported and now Apple closes that hole and they are all up in arms? [0] https://gizmodo.com/5061605/apple-confirms-failing-nvidia-graphics-cards-in-macbook-pros-offers-free-repairs-and-refunds https://gizmodo.com/5061605/apple-confirms-failing-nvidia-gr...
    - bjpbakker 8y ago
      > I have no reason to suspect that Apple broke hardware they themselves sold In fact my own 15" MBP late 2013 has a GFX750, which is no longer supported according to Apple Support [1]. The worst for me is that this didn't withold Apple from pushing the update, so running Mojave with an external monitor is hardly possible now. > Nvidia is not a "good" company. Agreed. Neither is Apple. [1] - https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208898 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208898
      - joshstrange 8y ago
        > In fact my own 15" MBP late 2013 has a GFX750, which is no longer supported according to Apple Support [1] That support article doesn't mention the GFX 750 and I can't find any record of Apple selling a MBP with a GFX 750... Edit: I believe what you meant to say is you have a "NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M with 2GB of GDDR5 memory and automatic graphics switching" [0] which it appears does not support metal. [0] https://support.apple.com/kb/sp690?locale=en_US https://support.apple.com/kb/sp690?locale=en_US
        bjpbakker 8y ago
        You're correct about the card, sorry about that. Got confused I suppose. Indeed I meant to say I have the GT 750.
        joshstrange 8y ago
        I should have added this in my edit but I'll put it here: I stand corrected. I DO think it's wrong for Apple to drop support for something they shipped, especially since it's just over 4 years old. I thought this issue was limited to people who had Mac Pro's or Hackintosh's and put an unsupported card in it. I'll admit I've only used 13" MBP's for the last 10+ years until my most recent MBP and so dedicated graphic cards wasn't in my wheelhouse. I honestly thought they stopped ALL Nvidia cards back in 2009ish.
        johnmw 8y ago
        As a sibling comment pointed out, it seems it does appear to be supported? I have the same machine: Chipset Model: NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M Type: GPU Bus: PCIe PCIe Lane Width: x8 VRAM (Dynamic, Max): 2048 MB Vendor: NVIDIA (0x10de) Device ID: 0x0fe9 Revision ID: 0x00a2 ROM Revision: 3776 Automatic Graphics Switching: Supported gMux Version: 4.0.8 [3.2.8] Metal: Supported, feature set macOS GPUFamily1 v4
scarface74 8y ago
You are aware that third party hardware vendors have been writing drivers for closed sourced operating systems for well over 30 years aren’t you?

zimpenfish 8y ago

Perhaps Nvidia are writing drivers that don't conform to the guidelines Apple provide for approval? Maybe they're trying to pull a Logitech and include lots of data gathering that Apple object to. Or they're ignoring things like events from power management. Or their drivers are just shitty Mojave citizens. Or they're trying to force a Mojave equivalent of GeForce Experience to be installed with their drivers. If Nvidia are being dicks in the face of reasonable requests, why would that be Apple's fault?

bjpbakker 8y ago
> If Nvidia are being dicks in the face of reasonable requests, why would that be Apple's fault? Because Apple sold the hardware /with/ the software, and now they completely broke that (<5 year old) hardware?
- joshstrange 8y ago
  Point of clarification, the article does not mention and I have no reason to suspect that Apple broke hardware they themselves sold. In fact the article does seem to point out there is support for specific Nvidia cards that Apple sold or approved. Also I find it rather impossible to believe that Nvidia couldn't release something that would restore this ability. Would a user need to disable some security feature temporarily to be able to install it? Maybe, but that's the price you pay for unsupported hardware. Apple got burned hard [0] by Nvidia and swore off them back around 2009. And Linux Torvald also called them out back in 2013ish IIRC. Nvidia is not a "good" company. Now people have be running things unsupported and now Apple closes that hole and they are all up in arms? [0] https://gizmodo.com/5061605/apple-confirms-failing-nvidia-graphics-cards-in-macbook-pros-offers-free-repairs-and-refunds https://gizmodo.com/5061605/apple-confirms-failing-nvidia-gr...
  - bjpbakker 8y ago
    > I have no reason to suspect that Apple broke hardware they themselves sold In fact my own 15" MBP late 2013 has a GFX750, which is no longer supported according to Apple Support [1]. The worst for me is that this didn't withold Apple from pushing the update, so running Mojave with an external monitor is hardly possible now. > Nvidia is not a "good" company. Agreed. Neither is Apple. [1] - https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208898 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208898
    - joshstrange 8y ago
      > In fact my own 15" MBP late 2013 has a GFX750, which is no longer supported according to Apple Support [1] That support article doesn't mention the GFX 750 and I can't find any record of Apple selling a MBP with a GFX 750... Edit: I believe what you meant to say is you have a "NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M with 2GB of GDDR5 memory and automatic graphics switching" [0] which it appears does not support metal. [0] https://support.apple.com/kb/sp690?locale=en_US https://support.apple.com/kb/sp690?locale=en_US
      - bjpbakker 8y ago
        You're correct about the card, sorry about that. Got confused I suppose. Indeed I meant to say I have the GT 750.
        joshstrange 8y ago
        I should have added this in my edit but I'll put it here: I stand corrected. I DO think it's wrong for Apple to drop support for something they shipped, especially since it's just over 4 years old. I thought this issue was limited to people who had Mac Pro's or Hackintosh's and put an unsupported card in it. I'll admit I've only used 13" MBP's for the last 10+ years until my most recent MBP and so dedicated graphic cards wasn't in my wheelhouse. I honestly thought they stopped ALL Nvidia cards back in 2009ish.
        johnmw 8y ago
        As a sibling comment pointed out, it seems it does appear to be supported? I have the same machine: Chipset Model: NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M Type: GPU Bus: PCIe PCIe Lane Width: x8 VRAM (Dynamic, Max): 2048 MB Vendor: NVIDIA (0x10de) Device ID: 0x0fe9 Revision ID: 0x00a2 ROM Revision: 3776 Automatic Graphics Switching: Supported gMux Version: 4.0.8 [3.2.8] Metal: Supported, feature set macOS GPUFamily1 v4

scarface74 8y ago

You are aware that third party hardware vendors have been writing drivers for closed sourced operating systems for well over 30 years aren’t you?