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The Ford F-150 now has an aluminum body, and uses a turbocharged V6 instead of regular V8 to generate torque, and it does a good job of it. Even so, the actual

The Ford F-150 now has an aluminum body, and uses a turbocharged V6 instead of regular V8 to generate torque, and it does a good job of it. Even so, the actual gas mileage owners get is lower than advertised, but still higher than a decade ago. The increased fuel efficiency standards have actually lead to higher costs of vehicle development to lighten the car and make the engine do more with less. Your lamenting the surge in trucks and SUV ownership is ironic since the increase is actually a direct result of the newer mileage standards: if trucks are now rated similar to where cars were rated 15 years ago, then why not go for the more utilitarian vehicle?

mtw 8y ago
There's really no reason why most people in Texas commute with a truck, unless you are in construction/renovation. If you follow the logic "go for the more utilitarian vehicle", then why not then commute with a semi trailer truck, after all these have a higher point of view, can haul more stuff. Or why not commute with a mining dump truck, it's got a practical bed and loads of space.
- assblaster 8y ago
  Your straw man is not relevant. You are asking people to purchase two vehicles for themselves: one high efficiency commuter and one utility vehicle. Why do people in Texas commute with a pickup? Because they don't want to buy a sedan in addition, and I don't blame them. If you look at liberal California, you'll see tons of Subaru AWD light SUV/crossovers. Why don't Californians just bike everywhere to save on gas? Are you going to spite them because they want a vehicle that does everything they need?
  - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
    This. Think of it as a three axis space with people capacity, indoor cargo space and outdoor cargo space on all three axis (I'm approximating here, there's more things than that people consider in a vehicle purchase but those are the big ones that determine which models you're considering). Crew cab and extended cab trucks have a lot of all three of those things (even more if you toss on a cap) making them capable of checking all the "must have" boxes of many potential buyers. The people that don't need the outdoor space get crossovers. The people that need more indoor space or seating get three row SUVs and minivans. The people that need the same blend of indoor/outdoor/seating but less of it get midsize trucks. The husband wants a driver's car with a manual and the wife wants a convertible with AWD and two rows of seating so they get a 4dr Jeep Wrangler (facepalm implied). Of course most vehicles are at least partially a luxury purchase so people higher on the economic spectrum will purchase more capacity than they "need" (three row SUV for two kids, 3/4-ton truck to tow a pop up camper).
  - jiveturkey 8y ago
    great point. thanks, assblaster.
  - ensiferum 8y ago
    And these people really need big ass trucks.. to haul exactly what? I bet the great majority of people really don't need it for work or anything.
    - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
      People don't "need" it in the sense that they need food or water but they "need" it to conform to social norms. It's a class/status thing. How hard you work your vehicles is inversely correlated with income (generally speaking, exceptions are in abundance when you speak in generalizations like this). If you hang out with the HN type crowd then you'll rarely if ever see someone fill every seat in a car or use a pickup to its full capacity. We're generally rich enough to afford more vehicle than we "need" in every regard (pickup trucks to haul light loads, three rows of seating for families with <4 kids, high performance German driving machines for a commute that's mostly sitting in traffic, etc, etc). At the other end of the economic spectrum people shoehorn whatever vehicle is available to them into every role it needs to fill. Every time I'm strapping material to the roof of one of my beater cars at home depot I'm immediately self aware that I am not acting the way people of my income level are expected to by other people of the same income level. Depending your income level pressing a less than ideal vehicle into service to fit all your needs is just not an option you let yourself seriously consider. So yeah, the people driving newish vehicles are mostly rich enough to not "need" all the capability they have and it's generally not socially acceptable for these people to go all out using their vehicles. Edit: You can see this playing out in the comments. Someone says they "need" a pickup to do something and gets responses like "No you don't, people in India haul lumber on motorcycles" or "But people in France can tow their their boat with a subcompact car" While that might be true the social norms of the US do not permit middle class and upper middle class people to use the piss out of their vehicles.
      - pascalxus 8y ago
        is this a texas thing? here in CA, i get the impression it's perfectly okay to load your car up quite fully. We put 5 people in an SUV without 3rd row seating on a regular basis without any kind of shame.
  - adrianN 8y ago
    You don't have to buy a utility vehicle if you only use it once a month. Renting is both cheaper and better for the environment. Where I live many people don't own a car at all and rent one when they need it. For example I needed a car twice in the last three years.
    - abakker 8y ago
      My experience has been that even all in, renting a truck once a month is not really that much cheaper, since buying a truck vs a car is not really a huge cost difference. Practically, getting to a place to rent a truck still sucks, and the whole process is still fairly inconvenient. It's nice that you don't need a car, that works with your lifestyle. OTOH, I don't commute, but my only vehicles is a large pickup truck because it is much more convenient for the things I do. One size does not fit all, especially with expensive and utilitarian items like cars and trucks.
    - wafflesraccoon 8y ago
      Not owning a car is unfortunately not a realistic reality living in all but a few US cities. Most American cities were built with the car in mind, without massive public infrastructure overall owing a car is basically a requirement.
      - adrianN 8y ago
        That's unfortunately true, but not owning a big car certainly is possible.
- squish78 8y ago
  I work in an office job. Here are some of my reasons for owning a pickup truck, yet not a mining dump truck. - I volunteer at a community garden and move mulch/plants/soil - I cycle, kayak, and go camping and it's easier to transport my gear - I am a homeowner, and do the repairs and maintenance myself. It's hard to haul things like lumber and miter saw in the trunk of a civic. - Taking tree trimmings and other wood mulch to a dump site - When buying new furniture, I can move it myself instead of renting/borrowing a truck
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    I used to own a large pickup truck. Traded in as part of my Tesla Model S purchase. Slapped a hitch on the Model S (2500 lb towing capacity) and I can do everything I did before with my pickup with my electric car (arguably easier with a lower platform for loading and unloading, and my trailer has a higher load limit than my pickup truck bed did). Unless you’re hauling thousand of pounds behind that truck every day (above smaller vehicle tow limits, which is a legitimate use case if you're someone who is a shipper/transporter or contractor with a heavy trailer of some sort), it’s a waste, but to each their own.
    - squish78 8y ago
      That seems like a reasonable alternative, but I like to also do maintenance on my own vehicle and have been working on combustion engines my whole life. I supposed it is as unnecessary as anything in life, no more or less so than a Tesla, Civic, motorcycle, or scooter Edit: I will concede that a mining dump truck would be unnecessary, in response to the parent comment
      - cronix 8y ago
        If you really enjoy doing maintenance, don't get a Tesla. The main thing you'd really be doing is changing tires every 40k or so, and eventually the battery pack. They are tremendously simple compared to a combustion engine. No spark plugs, no oil or filters to change, no oxygen sensors to go bad, no air filters, no fuel pumps or timing belts, etc. You'd be quite bored.
- S_A_P 8y ago
  I like in Houston. Yes there are plenty of trucks and many people driving them “unnecessarily” whatever that means. But I have worked in the northeast, mid west and west coast. Despite what you may want to believe, there are not that many more trucks in Texas than elsewhere. The F-150 would not be the best selling vehicle in the US if only Texans bought them. I personally can’t daily drive a truck because I like sportier vehicles. But I can’t be mad at someone who chooses to. They’re roomy, convenient when buying large items and as of late not earth destroying bro dozers that they seem to have a reputation for in some circles. If we truly want to make progress towards less oil dependence and cleaner vehicles then we have to get off this tribal greenies vs MAGAs nonsense that really only serves to entrench two sides. I’m somewhat interested in the auto industry, I like cars. I love old muscle cars that get 10 mpg and have horrible emissions. I also would love to own a Tesla. I would like to see future cars more in line with a model S or model X than the gas swilling muscle car. I think that the left thinks that mandates are the only way to get there. That may be partially true but I also think that mandates are pushing opposing goals. Cars have to be safer so you build heavier larger cars. That requires more horsepower so we need larger engines or forced induction. Setting a deadline for mpg and emissions is only going to make cars very expensive. Electric cars are not going to cover all use cases and there is a real problem of lithium availability and battery capacity. There have been great strides to solving these issues but it isn’t there yet. As other comments have said, passenger cars and trucks are low on the list of polluters compared to planes, semis, trains, cargo ships. Believe it or not, I think the folks in the auto industry do want to make cleaner more efficient cars and trucks, but they also are in a business where a misstep can bankrupt the company so bold moves are not on the road map.
  - jefurii 8y ago
    > Believe it or not, I think the folks in the auto industry do want to make cleaner more efficient cars and trucks, but they also are in a business where a misstep can bankrupt the company so bold moves are not on the road map. Wouldn't legislation that requires cleaner and more efficient vehicles level the playing field? If all companies had to do it then it wouldn't be a competitive liability.
- EADGBE 8y ago
  Are common people not allowed to do utilitarian things with their privately-owned vehicles? How else am I going to build a retaining wall, lawn maintenance, be the volunteer dance dad in the parade, pick up some building supplies for weekend projects, all while fitting three oversized safety-regulated car seats? Come on, this statement is close-minded.
  - Sharlin 8y ago
    Pickup trucks are almost unheard of outside the US, except in the countryside. SUVs are much rarer as well. Somehow people get by.
    - donaltroddyn 8y ago
      In Ireland, pickups are fairly uncommon (probably because of the weather), but 4x4s like Land Cruisers, Patrols, Defenders, Discoveries, etc are really common. The only category we don't have is what Americans call light trucks.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
Marsymars 8y ago
Yes, big pickups get better fuel economy than big pickups from a decade ago, but the entire compact pickup market has been eliminated in North America. I inherited my first pickup (a Nissan Hardbody), a couple decades ago from my father, who'd used it for years for beekeeping work, and the F-150 still doesn't match it for fuel economy.
- squish78 8y ago
  Now I want to know more about your beekeeping father

mtw 8y ago

There's really no reason why most people in Texas commute with a truck, unless you are in construction/renovation. If you follow the logic "go for the more utilitarian vehicle", then why not then commute with a semi trailer truck, after all these have a higher point of view, can haul more stuff. Or why not commute with a mining dump truck, it's got a practical bed and loads of space.

assblaster 8y ago
Your straw man is not relevant. You are asking people to purchase two vehicles for themselves: one high efficiency commuter and one utility vehicle. Why do people in Texas commute with a pickup? Because they don't want to buy a sedan in addition, and I don't blame them. If you look at liberal California, you'll see tons of Subaru AWD light SUV/crossovers. Why don't Californians just bike everywhere to save on gas? Are you going to spite them because they want a vehicle that does everything they need?
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  This. Think of it as a three axis space with people capacity, indoor cargo space and outdoor cargo space on all three axis (I'm approximating here, there's more things than that people consider in a vehicle purchase but those are the big ones that determine which models you're considering). Crew cab and extended cab trucks have a lot of all three of those things (even more if you toss on a cap) making them capable of checking all the "must have" boxes of many potential buyers. The people that don't need the outdoor space get crossovers. The people that need more indoor space or seating get three row SUVs and minivans. The people that need the same blend of indoor/outdoor/seating but less of it get midsize trucks. The husband wants a driver's car with a manual and the wife wants a convertible with AWD and two rows of seating so they get a 4dr Jeep Wrangler (facepalm implied). Of course most vehicles are at least partially a luxury purchase so people higher on the economic spectrum will purchase more capacity than they "need" (three row SUV for two kids, 3/4-ton truck to tow a pop up camper).
- jiveturkey 8y ago
  great point. thanks, assblaster.
- ensiferum 8y ago
  And these people really need big ass trucks.. to haul exactly what? I bet the great majority of people really don't need it for work or anything.
  - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
    People don't "need" it in the sense that they need food or water but they "need" it to conform to social norms. It's a class/status thing. How hard you work your vehicles is inversely correlated with income (generally speaking, exceptions are in abundance when you speak in generalizations like this). If you hang out with the HN type crowd then you'll rarely if ever see someone fill every seat in a car or use a pickup to its full capacity. We're generally rich enough to afford more vehicle than we "need" in every regard (pickup trucks to haul light loads, three rows of seating for families with <4 kids, high performance German driving machines for a commute that's mostly sitting in traffic, etc, etc). At the other end of the economic spectrum people shoehorn whatever vehicle is available to them into every role it needs to fill. Every time I'm strapping material to the roof of one of my beater cars at home depot I'm immediately self aware that I am not acting the way people of my income level are expected to by other people of the same income level. Depending your income level pressing a less than ideal vehicle into service to fit all your needs is just not an option you let yourself seriously consider. So yeah, the people driving newish vehicles are mostly rich enough to not "need" all the capability they have and it's generally not socially acceptable for these people to go all out using their vehicles. Edit: You can see this playing out in the comments. Someone says they "need" a pickup to do something and gets responses like "No you don't, people in India haul lumber on motorcycles" or "But people in France can tow their their boat with a subcompact car" While that might be true the social norms of the US do not permit middle class and upper middle class people to use the piss out of their vehicles.
    - pascalxus 8y ago
      is this a texas thing? here in CA, i get the impression it's perfectly okay to load your car up quite fully. We put 5 people in an SUV without 3rd row seating on a regular basis without any kind of shame.
- adrianN 8y ago
  You don't have to buy a utility vehicle if you only use it once a month. Renting is both cheaper and better for the environment. Where I live many people don't own a car at all and rent one when they need it. For example I needed a car twice in the last three years.
  - abakker 8y ago
    My experience has been that even all in, renting a truck once a month is not really that much cheaper, since buying a truck vs a car is not really a huge cost difference. Practically, getting to a place to rent a truck still sucks, and the whole process is still fairly inconvenient. It's nice that you don't need a car, that works with your lifestyle. OTOH, I don't commute, but my only vehicles is a large pickup truck because it is much more convenient for the things I do. One size does not fit all, especially with expensive and utilitarian items like cars and trucks.
  - wafflesraccoon 8y ago
    Not owning a car is unfortunately not a realistic reality living in all but a few US cities. Most American cities were built with the car in mind, without massive public infrastructure overall owing a car is basically a requirement.
    - adrianN 8y ago
      That's unfortunately true, but not owning a big car certainly is possible.
squish78 8y ago
I work in an office job. Here are some of my reasons for owning a pickup truck, yet not a mining dump truck. - I volunteer at a community garden and move mulch/plants/soil - I cycle, kayak, and go camping and it's easier to transport my gear - I am a homeowner, and do the repairs and maintenance myself. It's hard to haul things like lumber and miter saw in the trunk of a civic. - Taking tree trimmings and other wood mulch to a dump site - When buying new furniture, I can move it myself instead of renting/borrowing a truck
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  I used to own a large pickup truck. Traded in as part of my Tesla Model S purchase. Slapped a hitch on the Model S (2500 lb towing capacity) and I can do everything I did before with my pickup with my electric car (arguably easier with a lower platform for loading and unloading, and my trailer has a higher load limit than my pickup truck bed did). Unless you’re hauling thousand of pounds behind that truck every day (above smaller vehicle tow limits, which is a legitimate use case if you're someone who is a shipper/transporter or contractor with a heavy trailer of some sort), it’s a waste, but to each their own.
  - squish78 8y ago
    That seems like a reasonable alternative, but I like to also do maintenance on my own vehicle and have been working on combustion engines my whole life. I supposed it is as unnecessary as anything in life, no more or less so than a Tesla, Civic, motorcycle, or scooter Edit: I will concede that a mining dump truck would be unnecessary, in response to the parent comment
    - cronix 8y ago
      If you really enjoy doing maintenance, don't get a Tesla. The main thing you'd really be doing is changing tires every 40k or so, and eventually the battery pack. They are tremendously simple compared to a combustion engine. No spark plugs, no oil or filters to change, no oxygen sensors to go bad, no air filters, no fuel pumps or timing belts, etc. You'd be quite bored.
S_A_P 8y ago
I like in Houston. Yes there are plenty of trucks and many people driving them “unnecessarily” whatever that means. But I have worked in the northeast, mid west and west coast. Despite what you may want to believe, there are not that many more trucks in Texas than elsewhere. The F-150 would not be the best selling vehicle in the US if only Texans bought them. I personally can’t daily drive a truck because I like sportier vehicles. But I can’t be mad at someone who chooses to. They’re roomy, convenient when buying large items and as of late not earth destroying bro dozers that they seem to have a reputation for in some circles. If we truly want to make progress towards less oil dependence and cleaner vehicles then we have to get off this tribal greenies vs MAGAs nonsense that really only serves to entrench two sides. I’m somewhat interested in the auto industry, I like cars. I love old muscle cars that get 10 mpg and have horrible emissions. I also would love to own a Tesla. I would like to see future cars more in line with a model S or model X than the gas swilling muscle car. I think that the left thinks that mandates are the only way to get there. That may be partially true but I also think that mandates are pushing opposing goals. Cars have to be safer so you build heavier larger cars. That requires more horsepower so we need larger engines or forced induction. Setting a deadline for mpg and emissions is only going to make cars very expensive. Electric cars are not going to cover all use cases and there is a real problem of lithium availability and battery capacity. There have been great strides to solving these issues but it isn’t there yet. As other comments have said, passenger cars and trucks are low on the list of polluters compared to planes, semis, trains, cargo ships. Believe it or not, I think the folks in the auto industry do want to make cleaner more efficient cars and trucks, but they also are in a business where a misstep can bankrupt the company so bold moves are not on the road map.
- jefurii 8y ago
  > Believe it or not, I think the folks in the auto industry do want to make cleaner more efficient cars and trucks, but they also are in a business where a misstep can bankrupt the company so bold moves are not on the road map. Wouldn't legislation that requires cleaner and more efficient vehicles level the playing field? If all companies had to do it then it wouldn't be a competitive liability.
EADGBE 8y ago
Are common people not allowed to do utilitarian things with their privately-owned vehicles? How else am I going to build a retaining wall, lawn maintenance, be the volunteer dance dad in the parade, pick up some building supplies for weekend projects, all while fitting three oversized safety-regulated car seats? Come on, this statement is close-minded.
- Sharlin 8y ago
  Pickup trucks are almost unheard of outside the US, except in the countryside. SUVs are much rarer as well. Somehow people get by.
  - donaltroddyn 8y ago
    In Ireland, pickups are fairly uncommon (probably because of the weather), but 4x4s like Land Cruisers, Patrols, Defenders, Discoveries, etc are really common. The only category we don't have is what Americans call light trucks.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

Marsymars 8y ago

Yes, big pickups get better fuel economy than big pickups from a decade ago, but the entire compact pickup market has been eliminated in North America. I inherited my first pickup (a Nissan Hardbody), a couple decades ago from my father, who'd used it for years for beekeeping work, and the F-150 still doesn't match it for fuel economy.

squish78 8y ago
Now I want to know more about your beekeeping father