4 ms·

The thing is, for software projects, nothing else really works. So if your core business is software, and your organization doesn't embrace this inherent fact a

The thing is, for software projects, nothing else really works. So if your core business is software, and your organization doesn't embrace this inherent fact and instead does waterfall, there is a risk that all your examples are fiction, including maintaining financial control.

gronne 8y ago
Or you get away with selling bad software at exorbitant prices. Alot of big companies do fine (financially) with the waterfall methodology.
- close04 8y ago
  > Alot of big companies do fine (financially) with the waterfall methodology. Because it works for them. Right tool for the right job maybe. I see companies trying to switch to Agile without even considering that they're applying it to the wrong projects, like big infrastructure ones. It's a buzz word and they have to go for it to look good. That costs.
  - gronne 8y ago
    I guess. Ime. all project are are combination of waterfall and agile. Wrt. infrastructure the initial architecture plan needs to be almost all-encompassing. On the other hand you need to be able to react to new information and changing circumstances. Being religious with methodology is going to backfire 99% of the time.
  - corpMaverick 8y ago
    > Because it works for them. Right tool for the right job maybe. They are able to deliver software in spite of waterfall rather than because of waterfall. They just keep injecting time and money until they 'declare' their projects to be complete.
blub 8y ago
Agile is such a vague thing that it's impossible to say whether it works. So let's take Scrum, which is probably the face of Agile, whether its parents want it or not: Scrum doesn't work either for a lot of projects. Typically the implementors are blamed, but if a method consistently fails to be implemented correctly by a large segment of projects, I put the blame on the method myself. Maybe the real problem with software is that it's become too unstable because of market forces and all these methods designed to tame that are just a band-aid. Releasing a new version of an OS yearly seems to be a pretty silly idea... At the current level of complexity and churn, everything seems to deliver less than impressive results in the end, but people are kind of used to perpetual crappy software.
- Holybeds 8y ago
  > if a method consistently fails to be implemented correctly by a large segment of projects, I put the blame on the method myself. I have heard that sentiment many times but it doesn't really make sense to me. If a doctor tells patients that going for a run a few times a week is a good way to increase their stamina, but most patients are too lazy or busy to do it, do you blame the method of running then? Or do you mean that the method should be designed in a way that only companies who will succeed will adopt? By your standard, is there any successful method to this area?
  - blub 8y ago
    Yes, I would blame the choice of the method if most patients are too lazy or busy. A good choice would instead work for busy and lazy patients or would convince them to be less lazy and/or busy :) Multiple options should be offered depending on the patient. I've given actually a similar example regarding the "eat well and do sports" advice. It's not bad advice, it is correct, but it's not working for a large segment of the population, causing massive problems for health care and later (or now?) society. Instead of cheap advice maybe the doctor should prescribe physical therapy with a specialist where the patient can be educated on the what and the how. Or the appropriate gov organisation should ban or heavily tax soft drinks and crappy foods and make good, healthy food affordable and available.
  - 8y ago

gronne 8y ago

Or you get away with selling bad software at exorbitant prices. Alot of big companies do fine (financially) with the waterfall methodology.

close04 8y ago
> Alot of big companies do fine (financially) with the waterfall methodology. Because it works for them. Right tool for the right job maybe. I see companies trying to switch to Agile without even considering that they're applying it to the wrong projects, like big infrastructure ones. It's a buzz word and they have to go for it to look good. That costs.
- gronne 8y ago
  I guess. Ime. all project are are combination of waterfall and agile. Wrt. infrastructure the initial architecture plan needs to be almost all-encompassing. On the other hand you need to be able to react to new information and changing circumstances. Being religious with methodology is going to backfire 99% of the time.
- corpMaverick 8y ago
  > Because it works for them. Right tool for the right job maybe. They are able to deliver software in spite of waterfall rather than because of waterfall. They just keep injecting time and money until they 'declare' their projects to be complete.

blub 8y ago

Agile is such a vague thing that it's impossible to say whether it works. So let's take Scrum, which is probably the face of Agile, whether its parents want it or not: Scrum doesn't work either for a lot of projects. Typically the implementors are blamed, but if a method consistently fails to be implemented correctly by a large segment of projects, I put the blame on the method myself. Maybe the real problem with software is that it's become too unstable because of market forces and all these methods designed to tame that are just a band-aid. Releasing a new version of an OS yearly seems to be a pretty silly idea... At the current level of complexity and churn, everything seems to deliver less than impressive results in the end, but people are kind of used to perpetual crappy software.

Holybeds 8y ago
> if a method consistently fails to be implemented correctly by a large segment of projects, I put the blame on the method myself. I have heard that sentiment many times but it doesn't really make sense to me. If a doctor tells patients that going for a run a few times a week is a good way to increase their stamina, but most patients are too lazy or busy to do it, do you blame the method of running then? Or do you mean that the method should be designed in a way that only companies who will succeed will adopt? By your standard, is there any successful method to this area?
- blub 8y ago
  Yes, I would blame the choice of the method if most patients are too lazy or busy. A good choice would instead work for busy and lazy patients or would convince them to be less lazy and/or busy :) Multiple options should be offered depending on the patient. I've given actually a similar example regarding the "eat well and do sports" advice. It's not bad advice, it is correct, but it's not working for a large segment of the population, causing massive problems for health care and later (or now?) society. Instead of cheap advice maybe the doctor should prescribe physical therapy with a specialist where the patient can be educated on the what and the how. Or the appropriate gov organisation should ban or heavily tax soft drinks and crappy foods and make good, healthy food affordable and available.
- 8y ago