4 ms·

I just wish they wouldn't partner with orgs who restrict the downloading of material, it doesn't feel like the spirit of archive.org there are other places for

I just wish they wouldn't partner with orgs who restrict the downloading of material, it doesn't feel like the spirit of archive.org there are other places for content providers who want to be neurotic.

gear54rus 8y ago
can you elaborate on those orgs? any story to read?
- steve19 8y ago
  I am not the op, but maybe s/he is referring to the fact that you can rent drm'd ebooks. It was quite jarring when I discovered this, but I was able to get hold of a rare out of print book.
  - icebraining 8y ago
    Rent DRM'd books from whom?
    - steve19 8y ago
      I said rent, I should have used the word borrow.
  - gpvos 8y ago
    Apparently it's about these: https://archive.org/details/last20 https://archive.org/details/last20 (only 60 books) Article with rationale: https://blog.archive.org/2018/01/24/digital-books-on-archive-org/ https://blog.archive.org/2018/01/24/digital-books-on-archive...
    - dewey 8y ago
      That sound pretty awesome to be honest. > The digital protection allows books to be lent via downloads that disappear (or become inaccessible) when the loan period ends (e.g. two weeks). For users who prefer to read their ebooks directly in a browser, the same thing happens. The book becomes inaccessible at the end of the loan period, and the next reader in line has a chance to borrow it. That's just how it works in a "normal" library so why would it be any different? Sure, DRM is bad and all that but if they would just give books out for free indefinitely it wouldn't be considered a library where you have access to a certain number of titles for a period of time. It's either these books not being available for online lending at all or within the same constrains as a "real" library just easy and online. What's bad about that?
      - Narishma 8y ago
        > That's just how it works in a "normal" library so why would it be any different? Because these are not physical books. You can give access to them to as many people as you want at the same time.
        dewey 8y ago
        That not unlimited people can rent the same title at the same time is probably a licensing issue (as they only purchases x copies for lending). The DRM in this case is mostly about the time limit on the rental though. If you would get access to the title indefinitely it would be giving away not renting?
        zandl 8y ago
        The whole project is about preserving information for current and future generations, so what place does limiting the availability of it have in history? It’s more likely it’ll just be lost due to DRM when no one can figure it out in the future. It’s the digital equivalent of losing the books, though due to someone being more concerned about their pocket book today than for future generations.
        Wowfunhappy 8y ago
        Would you prefer that the Internet Archive not make these books available at all? That was likely the alternative possibility. I assume that the Internet Archive is holding onto the original, DRM-Free master copies. That's a job I trust the Internet Archive with, even if ideally I wish the data was more distributed.
        zandl 8y ago
        I would actually, because it sets a bar that if you’d like your book to be preserved then you need to make a choice, is your book so valuable that it should be free? If not, there’s plenty of other places for DRM books. What they’re doing instead is trying to have it both ways.
    - sneak 8y ago
      I was going to donate, but now knowing that some of those donations will be used to pay publishers that support DRM, I will not.
      - guipsp 8y ago
        The donations are not used to pay publishers.
    - pjc50 8y ago
      Yeah, it's standard if annoying for libraries. The alternative is either not making it available at all, or going full scihub and trying to stay ahead of law enforcement pulling your domains.
    - zorpner 8y ago
      The legal framework here appears to be quite complex. A bunch of specific detail: https://controlleddigitallending.org/whitepaper https://controlleddigitallending.org/whitepaper And some notes on Controlled Digital Lending from the Internet Archive that clarify how they want to use the legal framework -- specifically, to connect patrons everywhere with libraries everywhere so if a copy exists which is available for loan, it can be loaned out: https://blog.archive.org/2018/11/13/wasted-a-case-study-for-controlled-digital-lending/ https://blog.archive.org/2018/11/13/wasted-a-case-study-for-...

gear54rus 8y ago

can you elaborate on those orgs? any story to read?

steve19 8y ago
I am not the op, but maybe s/he is referring to the fact that you can rent drm'd ebooks. It was quite jarring when I discovered this, but I was able to get hold of a rare out of print book.
- icebraining 8y ago
  Rent DRM'd books from whom?
  - steve19 8y ago
    I said rent, I should have used the word borrow.
- gpvos 8y ago
  Apparently it's about these: https://archive.org/details/last20 https://archive.org/details/last20 (only 60 books) Article with rationale: https://blog.archive.org/2018/01/24/digital-books-on-archive-org/ https://blog.archive.org/2018/01/24/digital-books-on-archive...
  - dewey 8y ago
    That sound pretty awesome to be honest. > The digital protection allows books to be lent via downloads that disappear (or become inaccessible) when the loan period ends (e.g. two weeks). For users who prefer to read their ebooks directly in a browser, the same thing happens. The book becomes inaccessible at the end of the loan period, and the next reader in line has a chance to borrow it. That's just how it works in a "normal" library so why would it be any different? Sure, DRM is bad and all that but if they would just give books out for free indefinitely it wouldn't be considered a library where you have access to a certain number of titles for a period of time. It's either these books not being available for online lending at all or within the same constrains as a "real" library just easy and online. What's bad about that?
    - Narishma 8y ago
      > That's just how it works in a "normal" library so why would it be any different? Because these are not physical books. You can give access to them to as many people as you want at the same time.
      - dewey 8y ago
        That not unlimited people can rent the same title at the same time is probably a licensing issue (as they only purchases x copies for lending). The DRM in this case is mostly about the time limit on the rental though. If you would get access to the title indefinitely it would be giving away not renting?
        zandl 8y ago
        The whole project is about preserving information for current and future generations, so what place does limiting the availability of it have in history? It’s more likely it’ll just be lost due to DRM when no one can figure it out in the future. It’s the digital equivalent of losing the books, though due to someone being more concerned about their pocket book today than for future generations.
        Wowfunhappy 8y ago
        Would you prefer that the Internet Archive not make these books available at all? That was likely the alternative possibility. I assume that the Internet Archive is holding onto the original, DRM-Free master copies. That's a job I trust the Internet Archive with, even if ideally I wish the data was more distributed.
        zandl 8y ago
        I would actually, because it sets a bar that if you’d like your book to be preserved then you need to make a choice, is your book so valuable that it should be free? If not, there’s plenty of other places for DRM books. What they’re doing instead is trying to have it both ways.
  - sneak 8y ago
    I was going to donate, but now knowing that some of those donations will be used to pay publishers that support DRM, I will not.
    - guipsp 8y ago
      The donations are not used to pay publishers.
  - pjc50 8y ago
    Yeah, it's standard if annoying for libraries. The alternative is either not making it available at all, or going full scihub and trying to stay ahead of law enforcement pulling your domains.
  - zorpner 8y ago
    The legal framework here appears to be quite complex. A bunch of specific detail: https://controlleddigitallending.org/whitepaper https://controlleddigitallending.org/whitepaper And some notes on Controlled Digital Lending from the Internet Archive that clarify how they want to use the legal framework -- specifically, to connect patrons everywhere with libraries everywhere so if a copy exists which is available for loan, it can be loaned out: https://blog.archive.org/2018/11/13/wasted-a-case-study-for-controlled-digital-lending/ https://blog.archive.org/2018/11/13/wasted-a-case-study-for-...