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I'm sure there are many writers that I like whose views I would disagree with if I knew them. That said, I just can't read anything this guy writes since he so

by hillel 16y ago

I'm sure there are many writers that I like whose views I would disagree with if I knew them. That said, I just can't read anything this guy writes since he so vehemently opposed gay marriage.

astrodust 16y ago
He's also vehemently opposed to good writing if any of his more recent books are any example. I have honestly seen better fan fiction.
- RyanMcGreal 16y ago
  That's unfortunate if true. His older books are really good.
  - a_m_kelly 16y ago
    It's true: the old ones are very good, the recent additions to the Ender series for instance are terrible, they're an obvious cash in on his brand, I suspect he writes them quickly so he can make some quick cash (or to fill up his existing publishing contract.) and spends the rest of the time on stuff that doesn't suck so hard. A review I read of his recent story collection said his recent stories didn't have to try so hard, he knew they'd get published and he was more or less keeping a hand in, his earlier work he's working hard and striving for quality, this applies in spades to the rest of his recent work and may well apply to any entity's (sometime) fall-off in effort or innovation after they've succeeded.
    - chc 16y ago
      I agree that Card's writing is not what it used to be, but I don't think he's crassly cashing in on his past success. I think he has simply lost his touch (or at least, he no longer has the touch that appealed to us). His early works were written when he was still relatively young and passionate and had years' worth of crazy ideas swirling around in his head. Fast forward 25 years, he's written all the good ideas he originally had, and he's now a middle-aged Mormon father and conservative political activist. If you read his books nowadays, you'll find they're pretty much what you'd expect from that description.
tomjen3 16y ago
Honestly - get over yourself. You don't have to pay him money, and he doesn't even mention sexuality in that article ('cept, if you really, really want to stretch it, he does mention underwear) Yeah some of his believes are wrong, but this isn't one of them.
- sliverstorm 16y ago
  +1. If we only listened to people whose views aligned perfectly with our own, just imagine what a mess the world would be.
  - chadgeidel 16y ago
    I would argue that has already happened (here in the US). Of course, then again, I'm cranky.
bryanlarsen 16y ago
The sad thing is that I really enjoy his books. His newer books aren't as good. Is that because they really aren't as good, or because my reading of them is tinged by my knowledge that the guy is a nutcase?
- WingForward 16y ago
  They're really not that good. While his personal beliefs are way way more conservative than his novels, he does keep a pretty good separation. He really hasn't written anything that good since the late 90s. The Red v Blue wars in America? Weird. The latter Enderverse novels could have been cranked out by current AI. Treasure Box? Enchantment? Snoozers.
  - chc 16y ago
    You can actually see the progression in the original Ender quartet, since it spanned pretty much his entire career as a good writer. "Ender's Game" in '85 and "Speaker for the Dead" in '86 — It's hard to decide which one was more awesome. They're very different, but both are really gripping and create two fascinating worlds. When I read those two books, I thought I had found my favorite author of all time. "Xenocide" in '91 — Sadly, not as good as the first two, but still a pretty compelling book. Veers a little too close to becoming a paean to the wonders of marriage and fatherhood, but constantly course-corrects and is pretty successful overall. "Children of the Mind" in '96 — It's a readable novel, but as the conclusion to the previous three books, I couldn't help but ask, "WTF?" It's way too involved in its own ideas to bother with compelling characterization, and it has this weird tunnel vision that essentially reduces all human interaction to marriage, divorce or some analogue for the two.
- Zak 16y ago
  I read most of the books in the Ender's game series a few years ago, only having read the original before. There was a significant decline in quality in the later books, coinciding with more propaganda.
- protomyth 16y ago
  I really enjoy "The West Wing". Not fond of some of the politics and I regard Martin Sheen as a serious nutcase, but I still like the show. If you don't take the art on it's own terms then you will have to avoid a lot of stuff in this life.
moshezadka 16y ago
I feel the same dichotomy. What people said below is correct -- he does not mention sexuality -- but it still tinges what he writes. In thinking why this is, I have the following to offer: if it was "John Q. Random on Why Software Companies Die", there is a good chance it wouldn't rise to the top of HN quite so quickly. The accumulated reputation Card has is actually important for people reading this article. If this is so, then we must remember some of his reputation is being anti-gay-marriage: it is no less important to this article as is him being the author of Ender's Game.
- KeithMajhor 16y ago
  Except that being the author of Enders game speaks to his ability as a writer. His views on gay marriage are completely irrelevant in this context.
- profgubler 16y ago
  You do realize that well over half the country is anti-gay marriage? So when you read online do you discredit every two out of three articles you read because that person is likely against gay marriage? This is in jest but most of the time external beliefs don't matter to the topic at hand. Such as do you discredit the work of Schindler because he was a womanizer and from most accounts a jerk, or look negatively on others who write about coding because when they aren't writing about coding they are out supporting the tea party perhaps.
  - dasil003 16y ago
    Not that I disagree, but I'd be willing to bet serious ching that half of professional writers aren't against gay marriage.
    - profgubler 16y ago
      And I would probably not take that bet, because I am sure you are right as well.
- rbanffy 16y ago
cubicle67 16y ago
This seems to be an American behaviour I don't really understand; the inability to separate the things someone's said/written, from the person. If someone writes something you disagree with, why does that invalidate everything else they say? Michael Moore seems to exemplify this perfectly. He holds strong opinions on a wide variety of (often orthogonal) topics, yet Americans seem to feel the need to either embrace everything he says as good, or be vehemently opposed to him on the basis of their disagreeing with him on one topic. Is it too hard to say "I agree on this" and "I disagree on that"?

by hillel 16y ago

I'm sure there are many writers that I like whose views I would disagree with if I knew them. That said, I just can't read anything this guy writes since he so vehemently opposed gay marriage.

astrodust 16y ago

He's also vehemently opposed to good writing if any of his more recent books are any example. I have honestly seen better fan fiction.

RyanMcGreal 16y ago
That's unfortunate if true. His older books are really good.
- a_m_kelly 16y ago
  It's true: the old ones are very good, the recent additions to the Ender series for instance are terrible, they're an obvious cash in on his brand, I suspect he writes them quickly so he can make some quick cash (or to fill up his existing publishing contract.) and spends the rest of the time on stuff that doesn't suck so hard. A review I read of his recent story collection said his recent stories didn't have to try so hard, he knew they'd get published and he was more or less keeping a hand in, his earlier work he's working hard and striving for quality, this applies in spades to the rest of his recent work and may well apply to any entity's (sometime) fall-off in effort or innovation after they've succeeded.
  - chc 16y ago
    I agree that Card's writing is not what it used to be, but I don't think he's crassly cashing in on his past success. I think he has simply lost his touch (or at least, he no longer has the touch that appealed to us). His early works were written when he was still relatively young and passionate and had years' worth of crazy ideas swirling around in his head. Fast forward 25 years, he's written all the good ideas he originally had, and he's now a middle-aged Mormon father and conservative political activist. If you read his books nowadays, you'll find they're pretty much what you'd expect from that description.

tomjen3 16y ago

Honestly - get over yourself. You don't have to pay him money, and he doesn't even mention sexuality in that article ('cept, if you really, really want to stretch it, he does mention underwear) Yeah some of his believes are wrong, but this isn't one of them.

sliverstorm 16y ago
+1. If we only listened to people whose views aligned perfectly with our own, just imagine what a mess the world would be.
- chadgeidel 16y ago
  I would argue that has already happened (here in the US). Of course, then again, I'm cranky.

bryanlarsen 16y ago

The sad thing is that I really enjoy his books. His newer books aren't as good. Is that because they really aren't as good, or because my reading of them is tinged by my knowledge that the guy is a nutcase?

WingForward 16y ago
They're really not that good. While his personal beliefs are way way more conservative than his novels, he does keep a pretty good separation. He really hasn't written anything that good since the late 90s. The Red v Blue wars in America? Weird. The latter Enderverse novels could have been cranked out by current AI. Treasure Box? Enchantment? Snoozers.
- chc 16y ago
  You can actually see the progression in the original Ender quartet, since it spanned pretty much his entire career as a good writer. "Ender's Game" in '85 and "Speaker for the Dead" in '86 — It's hard to decide which one was more awesome. They're very different, but both are really gripping and create two fascinating worlds. When I read those two books, I thought I had found my favorite author of all time. "Xenocide" in '91 — Sadly, not as good as the first two, but still a pretty compelling book. Veers a little too close to becoming a paean to the wonders of marriage and fatherhood, but constantly course-corrects and is pretty successful overall. "Children of the Mind" in '96 — It's a readable novel, but as the conclusion to the previous three books, I couldn't help but ask, "WTF?" It's way too involved in its own ideas to bother with compelling characterization, and it has this weird tunnel vision that essentially reduces all human interaction to marriage, divorce or some analogue for the two.
Zak 16y ago
I read most of the books in the Ender's game series a few years ago, only having read the original before. There was a significant decline in quality in the later books, coinciding with more propaganda.
protomyth 16y ago
I really enjoy "The West Wing". Not fond of some of the politics and I regard Martin Sheen as a serious nutcase, but I still like the show. If you don't take the art on it's own terms then you will have to avoid a lot of stuff in this life.

moshezadka 16y ago

I feel the same dichotomy. What people said below is correct -- he does not mention sexuality -- but it still tinges what he writes. In thinking why this is, I have the following to offer: if it was "John Q. Random on Why Software Companies Die", there is a good chance it wouldn't rise to the top of HN quite so quickly. The accumulated reputation Card has is actually important for people reading this article. If this is so, then we must remember some of his reputation is being anti-gay-marriage: it is no less important to this article as is him being the author of Ender's Game.

KeithMajhor 16y ago
Except that being the author of Enders game speaks to his ability as a writer. His views on gay marriage are completely irrelevant in this context.
profgubler 16y ago
You do realize that well over half the country is anti-gay marriage? So when you read online do you discredit every two out of three articles you read because that person is likely against gay marriage? This is in jest but most of the time external beliefs don't matter to the topic at hand. Such as do you discredit the work of Schindler because he was a womanizer and from most accounts a jerk, or look negatively on others who write about coding because when they aren't writing about coding they are out supporting the tea party perhaps.
- dasil003 16y ago
  Not that I disagree, but I'd be willing to bet serious ching that half of professional writers aren't against gay marriage.
  - profgubler 16y ago
    And I would probably not take that bet, because I am sure you are right as well.
rbanffy 16y ago

cubicle67 16y ago

This seems to be an American behaviour I don't really understand; the inability to separate the things someone's said/written, from the person. If someone writes something you disagree with, why does that invalidate everything else they say? Michael Moore seems to exemplify this perfectly. He holds strong opinions on a wide variety of (often orthogonal) topics, yet Americans seem to feel the need to either embrace everything he says as good, or be vehemently opposed to him on the basis of their disagreeing with him on one topic. Is it too hard to say "I agree on this" and "I disagree on that"?