4 ms·

Replace “no office politics” with “functional office politics”, the answer is yes. The problem isn’t politics itself. It’s dysfunction, aka “dark patterns” aka

Replace “no office politics” with “functional office politics”, the answer is yes. The problem isn’t politics itself. It’s dysfunction, aka “dark patterns” aka antisocial behavior. The other problem is headlines like this one which, as other commenters have already pointed out, create confusion around an otherwise worthwhile topic.

maxxxxx 8y ago
Exactly. Whenever you have more than people there will be politics. Question is how dysfunctional they are. It will never be prefect.
rifung 8y ago
> The problem isn’t politics itself. It’s dysfunction, aka “dark patterns” aka antisocial behavior. One thing I commonly see and wouldn't consider antisocial behavior is the competition for promotions. In smaller companies this may be multiple people who want to become managers/leads of a team. In larger companies, this could be members of the same team both wanting the more impactful or difficult projects. I'm not really sure what you can do about that though. This just seems like a consequence of judging people based on their past work as opposed to their potential or ability. I'm not sure one could actually find a means to measure ability without looking at past work, especially for something as abstract as managing or programming.
- mindgam3 8y ago
  I think healthy, fair competition is not antisocial or dysfunctional at all. Where it gets dysfunctional is people doing all the lying cheating and backstabbing to get the prize. But this is inevitable when you have people of different levels fighting for a rare resource. It takes a strong company culture to keep things functional. The other challenge here is that many times star performers are coddled and given leeway to act in antisocial ways, out of fear of losing them to a competitor. This leads to their behavior being viewed as normal and emulated by others. Left unchecked eventually the whole thing devolves into, well, most of corporate America and an increasing percentage of startup offices.
blueboo 8y ago
Even non-antisocial dynamics lead to organizational dysfunction. Looking out for your friends, preferring to associate with people like yourself, and being rewarded for loyalty are all natural dynamics in human relationships, but are often at cross purposes with an organization's mission. The solution: good process and good-faith transparency, which takes work.
- mindgam3 8y ago
  I see what you’re getting at, but you are conflating some genuinely pro-social behaviors (loyalty and looking out for friends) with others which are more like human social defaults (preferring people like yourself). Also, if loyalty and ethics puts you at odds with an organization’s mission, #1, welcome to the real world, aka why I work for myself, and #2, probably a sign that that particular organization is dysfunctional. As opposed to all organizations. I agree with process and translarency. Although again in dysfunctional organizations these are the first to be gamed.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]

maxxxxx 8y ago

Exactly. Whenever you have more than people there will be politics. Question is how dysfunctional they are. It will never be prefect.

rifung 8y ago

> The problem isn’t politics itself. It’s dysfunction, aka “dark patterns” aka antisocial behavior. One thing I commonly see and wouldn't consider antisocial behavior is the competition for promotions. In smaller companies this may be multiple people who want to become managers/leads of a team. In larger companies, this could be members of the same team both wanting the more impactful or difficult projects. I'm not really sure what you can do about that though. This just seems like a consequence of judging people based on their past work as opposed to their potential or ability. I'm not sure one could actually find a means to measure ability without looking at past work, especially for something as abstract as managing or programming.

mindgam3 8y ago
I think healthy, fair competition is not antisocial or dysfunctional at all. Where it gets dysfunctional is people doing all the lying cheating and backstabbing to get the prize. But this is inevitable when you have people of different levels fighting for a rare resource. It takes a strong company culture to keep things functional. The other challenge here is that many times star performers are coddled and given leeway to act in antisocial ways, out of fear of losing them to a competitor. This leads to their behavior being viewed as normal and emulated by others. Left unchecked eventually the whole thing devolves into, well, most of corporate America and an increasing percentage of startup offices.

blueboo 8y ago

Even non-antisocial dynamics lead to organizational dysfunction. Looking out for your friends, preferring to associate with people like yourself, and being rewarded for loyalty are all natural dynamics in human relationships, but are often at cross purposes with an organization's mission. The solution: good process and good-faith transparency, which takes work.

mindgam3 8y ago
I see what you’re getting at, but you are conflating some genuinely pro-social behaviors (loyalty and looking out for friends) with others which are more like human social defaults (preferring people like yourself). Also, if loyalty and ethics puts you at odds with an organization’s mission, #1, welcome to the real world, aka why I work for myself, and #2, probably a sign that that particular organization is dysfunctional. As opposed to all organizations. I agree with process and translarency. Although again in dysfunctional organizations these are the first to be gamed.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]