7 ms·

Latest Windows Insider build makes a major upgrade to Notepad

43 points by ohjeez 8y ago

swasheck 8y ago
I would welcome lightweight version of Code (no extension/git integration) as a Notepad replacement.
- TwoNineA 8y ago
  Definitely better than Candy Crush.
- AstralStorm 8y ago
  There is no such thing. It is heavy even in the most cut down version compared to even Notepad+...
- bjoli 8y ago
  That makes no sense. I just started Notepad and it uses 180kb of memory. no kind of stripping will ever make VSCode even near that. The extra tens of mbs of electron (zipped) is just because it is supposed to be easy to add those features and hack on it. Notepad needs nothing of that. Heck, imagine what you could do in 4mb using only the things included in Windows. How large is notepad++? edit: the minimal 64bit notepad++ is 5.8mb and the 32bit version is 4.5mb. That's so small compressing binaries or memory doesn't bring much.
- huyzz 8y ago
  That is horrible. I like Notepad because it boots in milliseconds. Where do you get ideas like that?
- hajile 8y ago
  If anything, I'd like to see something similar to KDEs Kate editor (especially the vim support). Way more lightweight than vs code, but usable for large projects if desired. They could add support for their text editor protocol for the rest. There would be almost no overhead since the servers won't start unless you use them.
andrewmackrodt 8y ago
I use notepad replacer (https://www.binaryfortress.com/NotepadReplacer/ https://www.binaryfortress.com/NotepadReplacer/) to make vscode my default editor. I usually have vscode running so there's no noticeable startup time to worry about or garbled text when a file uses non carriage return line endings. I've used this method with other editors including notepad++, editpad and sublime and have never encountered an issue.
jmull 8y ago
Are they going to add multi-level undo/redo? Maybe they are saving it for Windows 50th anniversary?
- mark-r 8y ago
  Only if the underlying Windows control gets multi-level undo/redo. Since that information needs to be kept by the OS I assume it's kept simple on purpose.
smhenderson 8y ago
The examples of what changed seem useful. Default save to UTF8, a "dirty" flag to indicate the file has changed and some new keyboard shortcuts are welcome changes. I don't see current line number in the status bar which I feel is sorely missing. But other than that I really hope they don't change it too much more. I like the plain vanilla aspect of Notepad. If I need something fancier I have a lot of choices - the system I am using at work has GVim, MS Word, Wordpad and Notepad++ installed. But if I just want to leave a note on my desktop, make a quick change to a simple text file or print some quick notes for a meeting or something I will always reach for Notepad first. They "upgraded" calc in Windows 10 and I think it's kind of crap now. The interface is clunky and it's visibly slower than the old one. I hope they don't do the same to Notepad!
- O1111OOO 8y ago
  > I like the plain vanilla aspect of Notepad. Not a Windows user (anymore) but didn't they also add support for "Search with Bing.." (a while back?) that was hard-coded to work only with Edge[0]? I agree that the changes seem useful. The other highlights from the link below: (1) zoom into text (2) extended line ending support and (3) ability to display line and column numbers when word-wrap is enabled (this last one speaks to a point you made) Notepad was also a usb-friendly portable application (years ago when I used it). I wonder if this has changed... [0] https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/12/17563704/microsoft-windows-notepad-app-update https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/12/17563704/microsoft-window...
  - barrongineer 8y ago
    The "Search with Bing..." feature will open in whatever the default browser is.
- jandrese 8y ago
  Calc is a metro app now, or whatever that style of program is supposed to be called. I like when it starts fullscreen, with just a small button pad in the middle and an enormous obscuring border, like 99% of the time we aren't firing it up to so some calculation about an article we're reading on the web... The best part about notepad is that it's always there. Hop on a Windows box and you know it will have notepad. The same can't be said for Notepad++ or GVim or whatever else, especially if the machine you are on doesn't have Internet access. I'm totally behind modest improvements to Notepad to bring it into this century.
michaeloder 8y ago
It boggles my mind that Microsoft and other companies with a similar reach don't spend more time on core features and tools. Minor improvements such as in this case can improve the productivity of 100s of millions of users. For the next improvement, hopefully, Microsoft is paying attention to the Ars Technica comments: save unsaved entries to a temp file when the OS reboots. A recent files list would also be an improvement.
- nitwit005 8y ago
  I'm afraid that notepad is one of those applications that has gotten updates, but no one notices: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20180521-00/?p=98795 https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20180521-00/?p=... . Similar issue when they revamped the internals of calculator.
- rzzzt 8y ago
  Another comment mentions the lack of support for ctrl+backspace (which prints U+007F in the application instead of deleting an entire word). https://superuser.com/questions/33142/ctrlbackspace-inserts-a-small-box-instead-of-erasing/636973 https://superuser.com/questions/33142/ctrlbackspace-inserts-...
  - uryga 8y ago
    this also happens when renaming files in Explorer. i wonder if they're related EDIT (i read the article): > [Notepad] was, by design, little more than a very thin wrapper around a Windows multiline text-editing control. maybe that's why?
- mtgx 8y ago
  > save unsaved entries to a temp file when the OS reboots. What Microsoft's executives likely took from that: "Save unsaved entries to a Microsoft account document. Got it!" > A recent files list would also be an improvement. "Track users' OS usage behavior and serve ads based on that. Nailed it! What's next? We're on a roll here."
- veridies 8y ago
bovermyer 8y ago
Positive comment: Great! I love that they're working on improving less "shiny" parts of the OS. Negative comment: This change probably would have come faster if the entire OS was open source.
- Delmania 8y ago
  They probably can't do that because of the 3rd party in the OS they don't have the licenses to.
robomartin 8y ago
I don’t understand why they don’t just acquire Notepad++ and replace Notepad with it. Seriously, does the average Windows user even know Notepad exists, much less use it?
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
  Please don't. I like Notepad++ and would rather not see Microsoft UWP-ify it to death.
- bradford 8y ago
  Microsoft employee here. I still regularly see engineers use notepad as the default text editor. back in 2001, I met a windows kernel engineer who used notepad as his primary source code editor. I don't really understand it but notepad still gets a lot of use from a wide range of people.
  - mandeepj 8y ago
    > I met a windows kernel engineer who used notepad as his primary source code editor. oh man! He is missing out a lot. Notepad struggles a lot with edit history. Undo\redo is completely messed up. I try not to do with it. Gone through a really bad experience, many times.
klodolph 8y ago
> The reason for Notepad's rudimentary features over the years is because the application was, by design, little more than a very thin wrapper around a Windows multiline text-editing control. Supposedly it is also a guinea pig for new features. See: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20180521-00/?p=98795 https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20180521-00/?p=...
cryptos 8y ago
Finally the famous Notepad IDE is catching up! ;-)
Claudus 8y ago
I replaced Notepad with Notepad2, very powerful and fast loading with a clean interface. I prefer it over Notepad++ for that reason.
deckar01 8y ago
It's undo stack is still limited to one operation, so it is worthless to me for anything other than a one line change.

43 points by ohjeez 8y ago

swasheck 8y ago

I would welcome lightweight version of Code (no extension/git integration) as a Notepad replacement.

TwoNineA 8y ago
Definitely better than Candy Crush.
AstralStorm 8y ago
There is no such thing. It is heavy even in the most cut down version compared to even Notepad+...
bjoli 8y ago
That makes no sense. I just started Notepad and it uses 180kb of memory. no kind of stripping will ever make VSCode even near that. The extra tens of mbs of electron (zipped) is just because it is supposed to be easy to add those features and hack on it. Notepad needs nothing of that. Heck, imagine what you could do in 4mb using only the things included in Windows. How large is notepad++? edit: the minimal 64bit notepad++ is 5.8mb and the 32bit version is 4.5mb. That's so small compressing binaries or memory doesn't bring much.
huyzz 8y ago
That is horrible. I like Notepad because it boots in milliseconds. Where do you get ideas like that?
hajile 8y ago
If anything, I'd like to see something similar to KDEs Kate editor (especially the vim support). Way more lightweight than vs code, but usable for large projects if desired. They could add support for their text editor protocol for the rest. There would be almost no overhead since the servers won't start unless you use them.

andrewmackrodt 8y ago

I use notepad replacer (https://www.binaryfortress.com/NotepadReplacer/ https://www.binaryfortress.com/NotepadReplacer/) to make vscode my default editor. I usually have vscode running so there's no noticeable startup time to worry about or garbled text when a file uses non carriage return line endings. I've used this method with other editors including notepad++, editpad and sublime and have never encountered an issue.

jmull 8y ago

Are they going to add multi-level undo/redo? Maybe they are saving it for Windows 50th anniversary?

mark-r 8y ago
Only if the underlying Windows control gets multi-level undo/redo. Since that information needs to be kept by the OS I assume it's kept simple on purpose.

smhenderson 8y ago

The examples of what changed seem useful. Default save to UTF8, a "dirty" flag to indicate the file has changed and some new keyboard shortcuts are welcome changes. I don't see current line number in the status bar which I feel is sorely missing. But other than that I really hope they don't change it too much more. I like the plain vanilla aspect of Notepad. If I need something fancier I have a lot of choices - the system I am using at work has GVim, MS Word, Wordpad and Notepad++ installed. But if I just want to leave a note on my desktop, make a quick change to a simple text file or print some quick notes for a meeting or something I will always reach for Notepad first. They "upgraded" calc in Windows 10 and I think it's kind of crap now. The interface is clunky and it's visibly slower than the old one. I hope they don't do the same to Notepad!

O1111OOO 8y ago
> I like the plain vanilla aspect of Notepad. Not a Windows user (anymore) but didn't they also add support for "Search with Bing.." (a while back?) that was hard-coded to work only with Edge[0]? I agree that the changes seem useful. The other highlights from the link below: (1) zoom into text (2) extended line ending support and (3) ability to display line and column numbers when word-wrap is enabled (this last one speaks to a point you made) Notepad was also a usb-friendly portable application (years ago when I used it). I wonder if this has changed... [0] https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/12/17563704/microsoft-windows-notepad-app-update https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/12/17563704/microsoft-window...
- barrongineer 8y ago
  The "Search with Bing..." feature will open in whatever the default browser is.
jandrese 8y ago
Calc is a metro app now, or whatever that style of program is supposed to be called. I like when it starts fullscreen, with just a small button pad in the middle and an enormous obscuring border, like 99% of the time we aren't firing it up to so some calculation about an article we're reading on the web... The best part about notepad is that it's always there. Hop on a Windows box and you know it will have notepad. The same can't be said for Notepad++ or GVim or whatever else, especially if the machine you are on doesn't have Internet access. I'm totally behind modest improvements to Notepad to bring it into this century.

michaeloder 8y ago

It boggles my mind that Microsoft and other companies with a similar reach don't spend more time on core features and tools. Minor improvements such as in this case can improve the productivity of 100s of millions of users. For the next improvement, hopefully, Microsoft is paying attention to the Ars Technica comments: save unsaved entries to a temp file when the OS reboots. A recent files list would also be an improvement.

nitwit005 8y ago
I'm afraid that notepad is one of those applications that has gotten updates, but no one notices: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20180521-00/?p=98795 https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20180521-00/?p=... . Similar issue when they revamped the internals of calculator.
rzzzt 8y ago
Another comment mentions the lack of support for ctrl+backspace (which prints U+007F in the application instead of deleting an entire word). https://superuser.com/questions/33142/ctrlbackspace-inserts-a-small-box-instead-of-erasing/636973 https://superuser.com/questions/33142/ctrlbackspace-inserts-...
- uryga 8y ago
  this also happens when renaming files in Explorer. i wonder if they're related EDIT (i read the article): > [Notepad] was, by design, little more than a very thin wrapper around a Windows multiline text-editing control. maybe that's why?
mtgx 8y ago
> save unsaved entries to a temp file when the OS reboots. What Microsoft's executives likely took from that: "Save unsaved entries to a Microsoft account document. Got it!" > A recent files list would also be an improvement. "Track users' OS usage behavior and serve ads based on that. Nailed it! What's next? We're on a roll here."
veridies 8y ago

bovermyer 8y ago

Positive comment: Great! I love that they're working on improving less "shiny" parts of the OS. Negative comment: This change probably would have come faster if the entire OS was open source.

Delmania 8y ago
They probably can't do that because of the 3rd party in the OS they don't have the licenses to.

robomartin 8y ago

I don’t understand why they don’t just acquire Notepad++ and replace Notepad with it. Seriously, does the average Windows user even know Notepad exists, much less use it?

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
Please don't. I like Notepad++ and would rather not see Microsoft UWP-ify it to death.
bradford 8y ago
Microsoft employee here. I still regularly see engineers use notepad as the default text editor. back in 2001, I met a windows kernel engineer who used notepad as his primary source code editor. I don't really understand it but notepad still gets a lot of use from a wide range of people.
- mandeepj 8y ago
  > I met a windows kernel engineer who used notepad as his primary source code editor. oh man! He is missing out a lot. Notepad struggles a lot with edit history. Undo\redo is completely messed up. I try not to do with it. Gone through a really bad experience, many times.

klodolph 8y ago

> The reason for Notepad's rudimentary features over the years is because the application was, by design, little more than a very thin wrapper around a Windows multiline text-editing control. Supposedly it is also a guinea pig for new features. See: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20180521-00/?p=98795 https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20180521-00/?p=...

cryptos 8y ago

Finally the famous Notepad IDE is catching up! ;-)

Claudus 8y ago

I replaced Notepad with Notepad2, very powerful and fast loading with a clean interface. I prefer it over Notepad++ for that reason.

deckar01 8y ago

It's undo stack is still limited to one operation, so it is worthless to me for anything other than a one line change.