3 ms·

Are you really saying that you wouldn't work more than 40 hrs per week for < $150k. It's the money that makes you put in extra hours? The thing is that there's

Are you really saying that you wouldn't work more than 40 hrs per week for < $150k. It's the money that makes you put in extra hours? The thing is that there's a huge number of talented people out there who will put in extra hours because the work is interesting, or they feel that if they don't, they're letting the team down. In fact, the really really talented developers seem to care less about money (after a nice base-line), and more about the work / team. Or, other obsessive (and useful) qualities make them unable to say no to work, etc. So, who would a company prefer to hire? Obviously, the qualified person who would work for free, because it's their passion. Interestingly, $150k/yr is a lot more than I've ever made, but that's neither here nor there.

kenjackson 16y ago
Are you really saying that you wouldn't work more than 40 hrs per week for < $150k. If there were no other financial incentives, absolutely. I have no problem saying, "No" to work. I bust my butt doing 100 hour weeks so that you can ship Mario Halo World and make $500M opening weekend, I deserve to be compensated. Even if I love the work, I can spend that 60 hours per week that you're not paying me to work on something else I love. It's one thing to be RMS and working on your lifes passion for free. It's another thing to, as an employer, expect to ask someone to forego tucking their son in for the next 6 months, because you need to make $200M, but will not compensate them at all. I don't doubt there's people that will volunteer to do it out of some sense of passion or loyalty, but it won't be me. I know what I'm worth.
kenjackson 16y ago
And regarding $150k/year, saw your profile and you look young (although maybe you're not). Like it or not, you'll make more as you get more experience. Maybe that's reverse ageism, I don't know, but seems to be a fact of life, even in software, which is more meritocratic than most industries. Also it appears you do game development. Unless you become a rockstar or do the next Angry Birds as a solo dev, you'll tend to get paid less than the industry average -- at least that's how it has been historically.
- JabavuAdams 16y ago
  Your observations re: gamedev are correct. Actually, I can't really stand working for other people, so I'm doing a startup. Now I work almost all the time I'm awake, and I make 0 dollars. Hmm. So, what city do you live in? Does your employer have <10, <100, <1000, <10k, or 10k+ employees? Or, are you a contractor? EDIT> I should point out that the highest-paying jobs I've seen advertised for non-management devs in Toronto are around 100k. Architects are like 120k. Then again, a detached house in town, near a subway stop is under 400k.
  - kenjackson 16y ago
    I live and work out of two houses and offices. One in Seattle and one in SF. Less than 100 people. I used to be a consultant... if you've never done it I recommend all devs to spend some time doing it. The listed salaries in ads are just for where to start negotiations at :-) In any case, if your start up does well, but not so well that you can retire like Brin & Page (exit w/ say $3-5M) you'll find that higher paying offers tend to come a fair bit easier. I couldn't tell from your page (or I just missed it), what does your start up do?
    - JabavuAdams 16y ago
      > I couldn't tell from your page (or I just missed it), what does your start up do? I'm developing an online, subscription-based game for PC and Mac. > I used to be a consultant... if you've never done it I recommend all devs to spend some time doing it. The problem I see with consulting is that to be really good, you need to care more about the client's project than your own stuff (or at least act that way). This is a problem for me, since (non-retirement) money is not a significant motivator. This is also true of customers, of course, but there's a bit more leeway and leverage there. > The listed salaries in ads are just for where to start negotiations at :-) Very true. > In any case, if your start up does well, but not so well that you can retire like Brin & Page (exit w/ say $3-5M) you'll find that higher paying offers tend to come a fair bit easier. Interesting. When I reach that range, I won't be accepting offers -- I'll semi-retire. I'd probably work at building a personal submarine like Nautilus UC3 ($200k), doing AI research, building robots and making art. You mention SF and Seattle. For comparison, in Toronto, you can get a beautiful house in an elite uptown neighbourhood on the subway line, starting at around $650k. If you move to the 'burbs, the size/price ratio just improves (but why would you want to live in the 'burbs :)

kenjackson 16y ago

Are you really saying that you wouldn't work more than 40 hrs per week for < $150k. If there were no other financial incentives, absolutely. I have no problem saying, "No" to work. I bust my butt doing 100 hour weeks so that you can ship Mario Halo World and make $500M opening weekend, I deserve to be compensated. Even if I love the work, I can spend that 60 hours per week that you're not paying me to work on something else I love. It's one thing to be RMS and working on your lifes passion for free. It's another thing to, as an employer, expect to ask someone to forego tucking their son in for the next 6 months, because you need to make $200M, but will not compensate them at all. I don't doubt there's people that will volunteer to do it out of some sense of passion or loyalty, but it won't be me. I know what I'm worth.

kenjackson 16y ago

And regarding $150k/year, saw your profile and you look young (although maybe you're not). Like it or not, you'll make more as you get more experience. Maybe that's reverse ageism, I don't know, but seems to be a fact of life, even in software, which is more meritocratic than most industries. Also it appears you do game development. Unless you become a rockstar or do the next Angry Birds as a solo dev, you'll tend to get paid less than the industry average -- at least that's how it has been historically.

JabavuAdams 16y ago
Your observations re: gamedev are correct. Actually, I can't really stand working for other people, so I'm doing a startup. Now I work almost all the time I'm awake, and I make 0 dollars. Hmm. So, what city do you live in? Does your employer have <10, <100, <1000, <10k, or 10k+ employees? Or, are you a contractor? EDIT> I should point out that the highest-paying jobs I've seen advertised for non-management devs in Toronto are around 100k. Architects are like 120k. Then again, a detached house in town, near a subway stop is under 400k.
- kenjackson 16y ago
  I live and work out of two houses and offices. One in Seattle and one in SF. Less than 100 people. I used to be a consultant... if you've never done it I recommend all devs to spend some time doing it. The listed salaries in ads are just for where to start negotiations at :-) In any case, if your start up does well, but not so well that you can retire like Brin & Page (exit w/ say $3-5M) you'll find that higher paying offers tend to come a fair bit easier. I couldn't tell from your page (or I just missed it), what does your start up do?
  - JabavuAdams 16y ago
    > I couldn't tell from your page (or I just missed it), what does your start up do? I'm developing an online, subscription-based game for PC and Mac. > I used to be a consultant... if you've never done it I recommend all devs to spend some time doing it. The problem I see with consulting is that to be really good, you need to care more about the client's project than your own stuff (or at least act that way). This is a problem for me, since (non-retirement) money is not a significant motivator. This is also true of customers, of course, but there's a bit more leeway and leverage there. > The listed salaries in ads are just for where to start negotiations at :-) Very true. > In any case, if your start up does well, but not so well that you can retire like Brin & Page (exit w/ say $3-5M) you'll find that higher paying offers tend to come a fair bit easier. Interesting. When I reach that range, I won't be accepting offers -- I'll semi-retire. I'd probably work at building a personal submarine like Nautilus UC3 ($200k), doing AI research, building robots and making art. You mention SF and Seattle. For comparison, in Toronto, you can get a beautiful house in an elite uptown neighbourhood on the subway line, starting at around $650k. If you move to the 'burbs, the size/price ratio just improves (but why would you want to live in the 'burbs :)