6 ms·

When the company offerings can be beaten with local government offerings you know something is bad. Wondering why US has such terrible internet options.

java-man 8y ago
corruption.
- aswanson 8y ago
  Yup. Good old corruption. Funny fact I learned recently: The US is one of the most corrupt countries in the first world, especially at the state and municipal level.
  - xfitm3 8y ago
    I tend to agree. Although it's my opinion there is a significant barrier to entry in the US. Corruption is accessible only to those with wealth or influence. In other countries low level corruption is available to the common man.
- wetpaws 8y ago
  To people who downvoted op - it's absolutely corruption. Comcast lobbies the government, sues competitors and hogs taxpayer money to remain in power.
  - jermaustin1 8y ago
    In my home town, Comcast actually FINALLY got the approval to buy up a cable provider's lines a couple of years ago. The old cable provider only provided television. They would also never would expand their lines. I had a friend who's house was built between two others who had TV provided by this company, and they wouldn't run the line to their house. In my town and I'm assuming most, whoever laid the lines, gets the monopoly. Maybe Comcast could have gone around and buried new lines, but it would have been too cost prohibitive, so they waited for this company to finally die (people would switch to DirectTV and AT&T DSL), and now everyone in town can get actual high speed internet and television. This is the biggest problem I have with cable companies, they go into a town, lock it up, and don't innovate. But I also understand wanting to protect your investment of 10s-100s of millions of dollars in a town, expecting to earn it back over 30+ years.
- stevehawk 8y ago
  Just to elaborate on this since he's getting downvoted.. Internet access, like a lot of "free market" items in the USA are really a "capture" market. You grab your share and then get the government to keep out competitors.
  - java-man 8y ago
    exactly. thank you.
lotsofpulp 8y ago
It's inevitable when a private entity has monopoly of infrastructure. The people have no choice but to buy from it, the private entity has minimal incentive to invest in the infrastructure since it has a guaranteed revenue stream. The only thing they have to do is keep the population placated just enough so that enough voters don't get mobilized to make a stink out of it. For utilities, there is no reason why a private entity should have complete control over it. Water, sewer, gas, electricity, and internet infrastructure should be owned by taxpayers.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  >Water, sewer, gas, electricity, and internet infrastructure should be owned by taxpayers. We'll have the same situation we do with police departments where they're basically impossible to punish for wrongdoing because you're just punishing taxpayers by proxy.
  - lotsofpulp 8y ago
    Water, gas, and electric utilities work great. What is different about internet?
    - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
      Electric and gas are usually not municipally owned. Water is usually municipally owned but it's intentionally subsidized to the point where even poor people can afford it with relative ease so I'm not sure it makes sense to compare it to internet because presumably internet would need to be approximately pay for itself.
      - lotsofpulp 8y ago
        My point is there is some governmental oversight with regards to the quality and access (including price) so that all members of society have access to it, and since it doesn't make any sense to run a different pipe or cable to each residence, internet should be treated in the same manner. Internet is a requirement in today's world, and it's crazy that you can barely get a 1mb or 2mb upload in many places, and that's not even fiber.
rayiner 8y ago
Akamai ranks the US in top 10 for actual speeds, ahead of every large EU country: https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiS4IzAx5rfAhVmZN8KHV2nDhcQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.multichannel.com%2Fnews%2Fus-cracks-global-top-10-average-internet-speeds-akamai-413117&psig=AOvVaw08sSPGzPF2bSxSR1SiCNrn&ust=1544713271949286 https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiS... Nobody asks “why does Germany and France have such terrible internet options?”
- adrianN 8y ago
  The Germans sure do. "Breitbandausbau" is in the news in my filter bubble like every other week.
- Wohlf 8y ago
  I was amazed how slow the internet was when I went to Germany last year, even in downtown Stuttgart.
- dudul 8y ago
  1) Norway and Sweden are as large as France size wise. 2) Now, for fun, let's integrate the price dimension to this report. Yes I have better (maybe 1.5 to 2 times as fast) Internet than my parents who are in Europe, but I also pay 3 times what they pay for it.
  - greggyb 8y ago
    Regarding 2), that seems like an un-justified expectation that 2x in some category should be 2x price. I can buy a Chevrolet Spark for $14K. Top speed is listed at 110mph. Here's a list of cars that can go 200mph https://www.automobilemag.com/news/all-cars-that-go-200-mph/ https://www.automobilemag.com/news/all-cars-that-go-200-mph/. Find me a new one for $28K. I can buy a $90 printer for 27 pages per minute: https://www.amazon.com/Dell-E310DW-Wireless-Monochrome-Printer/dp/B00YDG3HFC/ref=as_li_ss_tl?tag=dt-incontent-btn-20&ie=UTF8&linkId=1911c6378493b257da5741d7a5b7176d&ascsubtag=computing:1261534:1544646874e66266f0 https://www.amazon.com/Dell-E310DW-Wireless-Monochrome-Print... I can find a 50 page per minute at >$500, but none less on a quick search. Here's one of the cheapest modern processors I can find: https://www.amazon.com/Intel-BX80677G3930-Celeron-Desktop-Processors/dp/B07HZ4PWJP/ref=sr_1_1/141-2849764-5130267?ie=UTF8&qid=1544647187&sr=8-1&keywords=Intel%2BCeleron%2BG3930&th=1 https://www.amazon.com/Intel-BX80677G3930-Celeron-Desktop-Pr... Go find me a 5.4ghz processor for $70.
Shivetya 8y ago
why do people assume a local government will be the end all to services? they can be likely just as bad and when they decided your neighborhood isn't a priority you will have little to no recourse. I do like the town's propose internet speeds and conditions compared to comcast but look at the extra money listed in the article. nearly a million had already been spend to map out the deployment and it will be another million and a half over twenty years to roll it out. throw in that any project past a few years will see the costs explode and this will mean that many will never see their new internet any time soon. plus finally, it will be interesting what protections are built into the system that prevent the government from tracking the habits of the residents using the service. so an entity with no financial obligation outside its jurisdiction with unlimited taxation powers and grants is able to out provide a private company, this is not news. when you have more money at your disposal you can make bigger promises the difference is they do not have to deliver as you have no legal recourse when they don't
- lolc 8y ago
  You realize the people who will be taxed over this agreed to it? > throw in that any project past a few years will see the costs explode and this will mean that many will never see their new internet any time soon. Speculation. > it will be interesting what protections are built into the system that prevent the government from tracking the habits of the residents using the service. The same protections you'd get from any other provider.
  - briandear 8y ago
    You realize that 89 people out of 1300 residents voted against the Comcast deal. That is not the same as a majority of residents voting for a tax increase to pay for internet. So no, the people that will be taxed overwhelmingly did not agree to this.
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      People who choose not to vote choose, by so doing, to defer to the preferences of those who vote. Also, the municipal deployment was approved in 2015, this was rejecting Comcast's offer to become a monopoly provider with inferior technology to head that off.

java-man 8y ago

corruption.

aswanson 8y ago
Yup. Good old corruption. Funny fact I learned recently: The US is one of the most corrupt countries in the first world, especially at the state and municipal level.
- xfitm3 8y ago
  I tend to agree. Although it's my opinion there is a significant barrier to entry in the US. Corruption is accessible only to those with wealth or influence. In other countries low level corruption is available to the common man.
wetpaws 8y ago
To people who downvoted op - it's absolutely corruption. Comcast lobbies the government, sues competitors and hogs taxpayer money to remain in power.
- jermaustin1 8y ago
  In my home town, Comcast actually FINALLY got the approval to buy up a cable provider's lines a couple of years ago. The old cable provider only provided television. They would also never would expand their lines. I had a friend who's house was built between two others who had TV provided by this company, and they wouldn't run the line to their house. In my town and I'm assuming most, whoever laid the lines, gets the monopoly. Maybe Comcast could have gone around and buried new lines, but it would have been too cost prohibitive, so they waited for this company to finally die (people would switch to DirectTV and AT&T DSL), and now everyone in town can get actual high speed internet and television. This is the biggest problem I have with cable companies, they go into a town, lock it up, and don't innovate. But I also understand wanting to protect your investment of 10s-100s of millions of dollars in a town, expecting to earn it back over 30+ years.
stevehawk 8y ago
Just to elaborate on this since he's getting downvoted.. Internet access, like a lot of "free market" items in the USA are really a "capture" market. You grab your share and then get the government to keep out competitors.
- java-man 8y ago
  exactly. thank you.

lotsofpulp 8y ago

It's inevitable when a private entity has monopoly of infrastructure. The people have no choice but to buy from it, the private entity has minimal incentive to invest in the infrastructure since it has a guaranteed revenue stream. The only thing they have to do is keep the population placated just enough so that enough voters don't get mobilized to make a stink out of it. For utilities, there is no reason why a private entity should have complete control over it. Water, sewer, gas, electricity, and internet infrastructure should be owned by taxpayers.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago
>Water, sewer, gas, electricity, and internet infrastructure should be owned by taxpayers. We'll have the same situation we do with police departments where they're basically impossible to punish for wrongdoing because you're just punishing taxpayers by proxy.
- lotsofpulp 8y ago
  Water, gas, and electric utilities work great. What is different about internet?
  - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
    Electric and gas are usually not municipally owned. Water is usually municipally owned but it's intentionally subsidized to the point where even poor people can afford it with relative ease so I'm not sure it makes sense to compare it to internet because presumably internet would need to be approximately pay for itself.
    - lotsofpulp 8y ago
      My point is there is some governmental oversight with regards to the quality and access (including price) so that all members of society have access to it, and since it doesn't make any sense to run a different pipe or cable to each residence, internet should be treated in the same manner. Internet is a requirement in today's world, and it's crazy that you can barely get a 1mb or 2mb upload in many places, and that's not even fiber.

rayiner 8y ago

Akamai ranks the US in top 10 for actual speeds, ahead of every large EU country: https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiS4IzAx5rfAhVmZN8KHV2nDhcQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.multichannel.com%2Fnews%2Fus-cracks-global-top-10-average-internet-speeds-akamai-413117&psig=AOvVaw08sSPGzPF2bSxSR1SiCNrn&ust=1544713271949286 https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiS... Nobody asks “why does Germany and France have such terrible internet options?”

adrianN 8y ago
The Germans sure do. "Breitbandausbau" is in the news in my filter bubble like every other week.
Wohlf 8y ago
I was amazed how slow the internet was when I went to Germany last year, even in downtown Stuttgart.
dudul 8y ago
1) Norway and Sweden are as large as France size wise. 2) Now, for fun, let's integrate the price dimension to this report. Yes I have better (maybe 1.5 to 2 times as fast) Internet than my parents who are in Europe, but I also pay 3 times what they pay for it.
- greggyb 8y ago
  Regarding 2), that seems like an un-justified expectation that 2x in some category should be 2x price. I can buy a Chevrolet Spark for $14K. Top speed is listed at 110mph. Here's a list of cars that can go 200mph https://www.automobilemag.com/news/all-cars-that-go-200-mph/ https://www.automobilemag.com/news/all-cars-that-go-200-mph/. Find me a new one for $28K. I can buy a $90 printer for 27 pages per minute: https://www.amazon.com/Dell-E310DW-Wireless-Monochrome-Printer/dp/B00YDG3HFC/ref=as_li_ss_tl?tag=dt-incontent-btn-20&ie=UTF8&linkId=1911c6378493b257da5741d7a5b7176d&ascsubtag=computing:1261534:1544646874e66266f0 https://www.amazon.com/Dell-E310DW-Wireless-Monochrome-Print... I can find a 50 page per minute at >$500, but none less on a quick search. Here's one of the cheapest modern processors I can find: https://www.amazon.com/Intel-BX80677G3930-Celeron-Desktop-Processors/dp/B07HZ4PWJP/ref=sr_1_1/141-2849764-5130267?ie=UTF8&qid=1544647187&sr=8-1&keywords=Intel%2BCeleron%2BG3930&th=1 https://www.amazon.com/Intel-BX80677G3930-Celeron-Desktop-Pr... Go find me a 5.4ghz processor for $70.

Shivetya 8y ago

why do people assume a local government will be the end all to services? they can be likely just as bad and when they decided your neighborhood isn't a priority you will have little to no recourse. I do like the town's propose internet speeds and conditions compared to comcast but look at the extra money listed in the article. nearly a million had already been spend to map out the deployment and it will be another million and a half over twenty years to roll it out. throw in that any project past a few years will see the costs explode and this will mean that many will never see their new internet any time soon. plus finally, it will be interesting what protections are built into the system that prevent the government from tracking the habits of the residents using the service. so an entity with no financial obligation outside its jurisdiction with unlimited taxation powers and grants is able to out provide a private company, this is not news. when you have more money at your disposal you can make bigger promises the difference is they do not have to deliver as you have no legal recourse when they don't

lolc 8y ago
You realize the people who will be taxed over this agreed to it? > throw in that any project past a few years will see the costs explode and this will mean that many will never see their new internet any time soon. Speculation. > it will be interesting what protections are built into the system that prevent the government from tracking the habits of the residents using the service. The same protections you'd get from any other provider.
- briandear 8y ago
  You realize that 89 people out of 1300 residents voted against the Comcast deal. That is not the same as a majority of residents voting for a tax increase to pay for internet. So no, the people that will be taxed overwhelmingly did not agree to this.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    People who choose not to vote choose, by so doing, to defer to the preferences of those who vote. Also, the municipal deployment was approved in 2015, this was rejecting Comcast's offer to become a monopoly provider with inferior technology to head that off.