6 ms·

What's the "problem" with tipping?

rottyguy 8y ago
I think it's somewhat insidious in that it forces a confrontation between workers and customers and the benefit goes to the owners. it also gives the impression that the product (lets say food) is 20% less than what is printed. yes I u/d tipping is optional, but it is more or less expected (at least in nyc) and you can be ostracized if you don't participate.
- kennywinker 8y ago
  It’s not just expected - the servers are not making a living wage without it.
  - hedvig 8y ago
    This should not fall to the patrons. This is the problem of the business model. Remove tipping as an option, price the meals, and pay the employees a wage.
    - leetcrew 8y ago
      who are you advocating for here? if you're actually concerned for the servers, you might consider asking some of them for their opinion on tipping. most servers that I've talked to (including myself) actually like the system.
      - pseudalopex 8y ago
        Some make good money and like it. Some would rather have more consistent pay and less emotional labor. Some think it's good for them but unfair to the back of the house. Some have seen it facilitate wage theft and hate it.
      - nicoburns 8y ago
        I'm not the OP, but I'd advocate changing the minimum wage law to be the same for waiting staff as it is for every other job. You can still allow tipping. Here in the UK a 10% tip is customary if you were happy with the service, and I know plenty of people who do very well out of tips.
  - leetcrew 8y ago
    over a single pay period, servers are guaranteed minimum hourly wage regardless of tips. if minimum wage is less than a living wage, that's a separate issue that applies just as well to gas station cashiers.
parthdesai 8y ago
Why don't restaurant owners increase the food prices and pay servers a fair wage? Opening a $100 bottle of wine or $400 bottle of wine requires same effort, why do i pay extra for a $400 bottle of wine? Now if you bring up the "service" provided argument, That is literally their job. If they are getting paid a decent minimum wage or little bit more than that, i think it's fair. Do you tip McDonald's employee? Do you tip your garbage men? Do you tip the people who helped you at the clothing store?
- kennywinker 8y ago
  > why do i pay extra for a $400 bottle of wine? Because you can afford a $400 bottle of wine. It’s a wealth-based sliding scale.
  - parthdesai 8y ago
    You are doing exactly same amount of work. It already is ridiculous to pay $20 to unscrew a cork and you are saying i should be paying $80 for a person to unscrew a cork just because the bottle itself costs more?
    - fermienrico 8y ago
      I like the spirit of what you're saying but your tone is not acceptable by HN standards.
      - parthdesai 8y ago
        fair, edited the comment.
    - defaultprimate 8y ago
      Imagine telling this to a developer with 10 years of experience versus one with 1 year of experience that you've contracted to do the same job. It's no different. There's so much more to the story of the server than "the same amount of work". Most servers that work in a place selling $400 bottles of wine have a lot more knowledge, service quality, expertise, etc. than you'd find elsewhere. If you don't want to participate in the culture, don't go to places you would be upset doing so.
BlackFly 8y ago
The same as the problem with not including the tax in the price up front: it hides the true cost behind a series of computations that most people won't do and a tourist certainly cannot do without research. It is essentially a trick to get people to not think about how much money they are spending.
gammateam 8y ago
Because it sows division amongst subcultures of the US that dont subscribe to the tipping culture. You have people in the lowest socioeconomic classes validating their disdain for some minorities because they don't tip, instead of affecting change to wage system itself, this is a useful distraction for people in higher socioeconomic classes. In places like Miami where English comprehension is very low, mandatory gratuity is added with a further line item for tipping Disparate hospitality minimum wage excecptions across the country exacerbates the level of research and discretion needed to adequately consider tipping. With some places paying a seperate lower minimum wage to restuarant workers and some places like California (where over 10% of the country lives) having normalized minimum wages but the same compulsory guilt driven tipping expectations.
hedvig 8y ago
It shouldn't fall to me to pay a business's employees directly. The business should pay its own employees.

I think it's somewhat insidious in that it forces a confrontation between workers and customers and the benefit goes to the owners. it also gives the impression that the product (lets say food) is 20% less than what is printed. yes I u/d tipping is optional, but it is more or less expected (at least in nyc) and you can be ostracized if you don't participate.

kennywinker 8y ago
It’s not just expected - the servers are not making a living wage without it.
- hedvig 8y ago
  This should not fall to the patrons. This is the problem of the business model. Remove tipping as an option, price the meals, and pay the employees a wage.
  - leetcrew 8y ago
    who are you advocating for here? if you're actually concerned for the servers, you might consider asking some of them for their opinion on tipping. most servers that I've talked to (including myself) actually like the system.
    - pseudalopex 8y ago
      Some make good money and like it. Some would rather have more consistent pay and less emotional labor. Some think it's good for them but unfair to the back of the house. Some have seen it facilitate wage theft and hate it.
    - nicoburns 8y ago
      I'm not the OP, but I'd advocate changing the minimum wage law to be the same for waiting staff as it is for every other job. You can still allow tipping. Here in the UK a 10% tip is customary if you were happy with the service, and I know plenty of people who do very well out of tips.
- leetcrew 8y ago
  over a single pay period, servers are guaranteed minimum hourly wage regardless of tips. if minimum wage is less than a living wage, that's a separate issue that applies just as well to gas station cashiers.

parthdesai 8y ago

Why don't restaurant owners increase the food prices and pay servers a fair wage? Opening a $100 bottle of wine or $400 bottle of wine requires same effort, why do i pay extra for a $400 bottle of wine? Now if you bring up the "service" provided argument, That is literally their job. If they are getting paid a decent minimum wage or little bit more than that, i think it's fair. Do you tip McDonald's employee? Do you tip your garbage men? Do you tip the people who helped you at the clothing store?

kennywinker 8y ago
> why do i pay extra for a $400 bottle of wine? Because you can afford a $400 bottle of wine. It’s a wealth-based sliding scale.
- parthdesai 8y ago
  You are doing exactly same amount of work. It already is ridiculous to pay $20 to unscrew a cork and you are saying i should be paying $80 for a person to unscrew a cork just because the bottle itself costs more?
  - fermienrico 8y ago
    I like the spirit of what you're saying but your tone is not acceptable by HN standards.
    - parthdesai 8y ago
      fair, edited the comment.
  - defaultprimate 8y ago
    Imagine telling this to a developer with 10 years of experience versus one with 1 year of experience that you've contracted to do the same job. It's no different. There's so much more to the story of the server than "the same amount of work". Most servers that work in a place selling $400 bottles of wine have a lot more knowledge, service quality, expertise, etc. than you'd find elsewhere. If you don't want to participate in the culture, don't go to places you would be upset doing so.

BlackFly 8y ago

The same as the problem with not including the tax in the price up front: it hides the true cost behind a series of computations that most people won't do and a tourist certainly cannot do without research. It is essentially a trick to get people to not think about how much money they are spending.

gammateam 8y ago

Because it sows division amongst subcultures of the US that dont subscribe to the tipping culture. You have people in the lowest socioeconomic classes validating their disdain for some minorities because they don't tip, instead of affecting change to wage system itself, this is a useful distraction for people in higher socioeconomic classes. In places like Miami where English comprehension is very low, mandatory gratuity is added with a further line item for tipping Disparate hospitality minimum wage excecptions across the country exacerbates the level of research and discretion needed to adequately consider tipping. With some places paying a seperate lower minimum wage to restuarant workers and some places like California (where over 10% of the country lives) having normalized minimum wages but the same compulsory guilt driven tipping expectations.

hedvig 8y ago

It shouldn't fall to me to pay a business's employees directly. The business should pay its own employees.