5 ms·

I'm not sure I understand the issue. Hiring contractors is pretty standard practice at most large organizations.

by sharemywin 8y ago

JeremyBanks 8y ago
“Don’t be evil” was coined in response to the perceived evilness of other actors in the industry.
mkirklions 8y ago
Upvotes=/= correctness. HN whales notoriously upvote anti-corporate posts. It reminds me of slacktivism.
- coldtea 8y ago
  Why shouldn't they? Is it expected that everybody should agree with your politics and views on corporations? What proves "correctness" in this sense?
- writepub 8y ago
  It's a rather disappointing truth that HN whales, and HN in turn, are left leaning, socialist Democrats. You'd think a tech focused forum would be more diverse, but there's only one viewpoint kosher here. Unfortunate that the very people screaming for diversity lack basic tolerance for diversity of thought.
  - TheCoelacanth 8y ago
    You don't have to be a "left leaning, socialist Democrat" to disagree with the comment. It is rather worthless as an argument since it just a classic appeal-to-popularity fallacy.
  - lovich 8y ago
    As one someone I think you'd count in that group, I can say that you are unequivocally wrong. I am fairly active on this forum and I don't really reply to people who say things I agree with because its already been said. There is a surfeit of libertarians on this forum that give me opposing viewpoints to debate, as well as a minority of corpratists
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
    Upvotes here may != correctness, but they are a pretty good proxy. I've been here for a while, and most comments on policy/law really are downvoted for being dumb, not for whatever political label can be pattern-matched to it. If a suggestion presented in your comment correctly accounts for first-order effects and at least pretends to account for second-order effects, you can argue things that match pretty much any political ideology out there, as I've seen done here many times. (Related, classifying things by political labels doesn't lead to correct answers in general.)
    - writepub 8y ago
      True that upvotes!=correctness. But the idea of karma and incentivizing those with higher karma with more privileges on HN basically means Upvotes=correctness for purposes of being heard on and being able to mould HN. For all practical purposes on HN, a politically left leaning viewpoint is more likely to incentivize the op, and turn HN more left in a vicious cycle of Upvotes/Downvotes
  - thriwaway 8y ago
    It is well known that people with higher IQ and higher education lean left, and you'd expect HN's demography to be significantly biased that way. Also, conflating "Democrat" and "socialist" would get you laughed out of any non-American room. Perhaps this mistake is due to a lack of education about the world? ;)
    - mkirklions 8y ago
      This sounds great until you read something HN says is objectively wrong and has upvotes. Then you think everyone here is less intelligent than they lead on.
  - RightMillennial 8y ago
    I partially agree with your general criticism. But as conservative in tech, I'm completely with the lefties on this one.
  - dang 8y ago
    > HN in turn, are left leaning, socialist Democrats This is the hostile media effect: ideological users see the platform as dominated by their enemies. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18671955 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18671955, where HN is "the techno-libertarian norm around here". https://hn.algolia.com/?query=13110004&sort=byDate&prefix&page=0&dateRange=all&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?query=13110004&sort=byDate&prefix&pa...
    - writepub 8y ago
      HN is made of humans, and humans project concious and unconscious bias in their actions. Though perceptions may vary, there certainly is one ideology that can be scientifically proven to exist among HN whales. It may or may not be the one I perceive, but to pretend like HN whales carry no ideological baggage in their voting is inaccurate. Maybe a poll, or sentiment analysis of the most Up-voted and down-voted comments can reveal this. Thanks
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
CoolGuySteve 8y ago
Just because it’s standard practice doesn’t mean it’s ethical. In my experience, the perma-contractors were always getting ripped off when it came to benefits and job security to the maximum extent of California law by some of the most profitable companies in the world, companies that could trivially afford to pay. I found it abhorrent.
- lotsofpulp 8y ago
  The solution is not to bandaid it by forcing a handful of companies to pay more generously, but to affect legislation that will provide everyone with the benefits and job security, regardless of employer. This would remove the inherent competitive advantages that large employers versus small businesses, and be easier to implement in the long run.
- sharemywin 8y ago
  Unless somethings changed sense like the law not on google side. The assignment length issue became a serious topic of conversation in the late 1980s when the IRS announced their intent to re-class Microsoft contractors as common law employees and ultimately make them eligible for the same stock option and retirement benefits offered to regular MS employees. The length of time Microsoft’s temporary and contract employees had been on assignment was part of that argument. The employees in question had all surpassed the ERISA “year of service” rule, which requires that once an” employee” works 1000 hours they are automatically eligible for ERISA governed benefits.
gerbilly 8y ago
Lots of unethical practises are 'Standard practice' these days. So what?
- tanilama 8y ago
  Hiring contractor doesn't entirely speak unethical to me
  - gerbilly 8y ago
    Of course not, but that's just it, when engaged in as a practise to deprive long term workers of benefits, it is unethical, at least to me.
    - mruniverse 8y ago
      Certain jobs aren’t as valued as others. Hence less pay and benefits. Is there something unethical about that?
      - gerbilly 8y ago
        Probably yes, but aside from that, this tactic is moving upmarket and starting to affect the 'more valuable' jobs too.

I'm not sure I understand the issue. Hiring contractors is pretty standard practice at most large organizations.

JeremyBanks 8y ago

“Don’t be evil” was coined in response to the perceived evilness of other actors in the industry.

mkirklions 8y ago

Upvotes=/= correctness. HN whales notoriously upvote anti-corporate posts. It reminds me of slacktivism.

coldtea 8y ago
Why shouldn't they? Is it expected that everybody should agree with your politics and views on corporations? What proves "correctness" in this sense?
writepub 8y ago
It's a rather disappointing truth that HN whales, and HN in turn, are left leaning, socialist Democrats. You'd think a tech focused forum would be more diverse, but there's only one viewpoint kosher here. Unfortunate that the very people screaming for diversity lack basic tolerance for diversity of thought.
- TheCoelacanth 8y ago
  You don't have to be a "left leaning, socialist Democrat" to disagree with the comment. It is rather worthless as an argument since it just a classic appeal-to-popularity fallacy.
- lovich 8y ago
  As one someone I think you'd count in that group, I can say that you are unequivocally wrong. I am fairly active on this forum and I don't really reply to people who say things I agree with because its already been said. There is a surfeit of libertarians on this forum that give me opposing viewpoints to debate, as well as a minority of corpratists
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  Upvotes here may != correctness, but they are a pretty good proxy. I've been here for a while, and most comments on policy/law really are downvoted for being dumb, not for whatever political label can be pattern-matched to it. If a suggestion presented in your comment correctly accounts for first-order effects and at least pretends to account for second-order effects, you can argue things that match pretty much any political ideology out there, as I've seen done here many times. (Related, classifying things by political labels doesn't lead to correct answers in general.)
  - writepub 8y ago
    True that upvotes!=correctness. But the idea of karma and incentivizing those with higher karma with more privileges on HN basically means Upvotes=correctness for purposes of being heard on and being able to mould HN. For all practical purposes on HN, a politically left leaning viewpoint is more likely to incentivize the op, and turn HN more left in a vicious cycle of Upvotes/Downvotes
- thriwaway 8y ago
  It is well known that people with higher IQ and higher education lean left, and you'd expect HN's demography to be significantly biased that way. Also, conflating "Democrat" and "socialist" would get you laughed out of any non-American room. Perhaps this mistake is due to a lack of education about the world? ;)
  - mkirklions 8y ago
    This sounds great until you read something HN says is objectively wrong and has upvotes. Then you think everyone here is less intelligent than they lead on.
- RightMillennial 8y ago
  I partially agree with your general criticism. But as conservative in tech, I'm completely with the lefties on this one.
- dang 8y ago
  > HN in turn, are left leaning, socialist Democrats This is the hostile media effect: ideological users see the platform as dominated by their enemies. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18671955 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18671955, where HN is "the techno-libertarian norm around here". https://hn.algolia.com/?query=13110004&sort=byDate&prefix&page=0&dateRange=all&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?query=13110004&sort=byDate&prefix&pa...
  - writepub 8y ago
    HN is made of humans, and humans project concious and unconscious bias in their actions. Though perceptions may vary, there certainly is one ideology that can be scientifically proven to exist among HN whales. It may or may not be the one I perceive, but to pretend like HN whales carry no ideological baggage in their voting is inaccurate. Maybe a poll, or sentiment analysis of the most Up-voted and down-voted comments can reveal this. Thanks
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

CoolGuySteve 8y ago

Just because it’s standard practice doesn’t mean it’s ethical. In my experience, the perma-contractors were always getting ripped off when it came to benefits and job security to the maximum extent of California law by some of the most profitable companies in the world, companies that could trivially afford to pay. I found it abhorrent.

lotsofpulp 8y ago
The solution is not to bandaid it by forcing a handful of companies to pay more generously, but to affect legislation that will provide everyone with the benefits and job security, regardless of employer. This would remove the inherent competitive advantages that large employers versus small businesses, and be easier to implement in the long run.
sharemywin 8y ago
Unless somethings changed sense like the law not on google side. The assignment length issue became a serious topic of conversation in the late 1980s when the IRS announced their intent to re-class Microsoft contractors as common law employees and ultimately make them eligible for the same stock option and retirement benefits offered to regular MS employees. The length of time Microsoft’s temporary and contract employees had been on assignment was part of that argument. The employees in question had all surpassed the ERISA “year of service” rule, which requires that once an” employee” works 1000 hours they are automatically eligible for ERISA governed benefits.

gerbilly 8y ago

Lots of unethical practises are 'Standard practice' these days. So what?

tanilama 8y ago
Hiring contractor doesn't entirely speak unethical to me
- gerbilly 8y ago
  Of course not, but that's just it, when engaged in as a practise to deprive long term workers of benefits, it is unethical, at least to me.
  - mruniverse 8y ago
    Certain jobs aren’t as valued as others. Hence less pay and benefits. Is there something unethical about that?
    - gerbilly 8y ago
      Probably yes, but aside from that, this tactic is moving upmarket and starting to affect the 'more valuable' jobs too.