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Why is it disgusting? In a lot of job people are expected to rush to get things done. I know a lawyer who was fired because she didn't get a payment executed by

Why is it disgusting? In a lot of job people are expected to rush to get things done. I know a lawyer who was fired because she didn't get a payment executed by 5pm (it ended up costing someone a lot of money)

krapp 8y ago
Lawyers are compensated better for their time than Amazon warehouse workers. The raffle tickets aren't for, you know, a performance bonus or anything of value, it's just a cheap gimmick.
- songshu 8y ago
  Also the reason lawyers make so much is that they have the best trade unions ever. There’s a reason you can’t buy legal services from Walmart.
  - jstanley 8y ago
    No, the reason lawyers make so much is that they have knowledge and skills that are in high demand and that most people don't have. Software developers don't have any trade union at all, and we're paid well. The reason you can't buy legal services from Walmart is the same reason you can't buy software development from Walmart. It's just not their business.
    - badpun 8y ago
      In Poland, lawyers got deunionized to a large degree around 10 years ago, and the result is that most lawyers with private practices are no longer making great money, or are plain struggling. The only ones who make a very good living are those in niche specialisations, handling corporate interests.
      - arethuza 8y ago
        In the UK at least, a lot of lawyers (particularly partners of small firms) make a lot less money than people might think.
    - songshu 8y ago
      Can you imagine how much more software developers would earn if we were unionized as lawyers are? If you couldn't practice without a license? If you needed to go school for $$$ before being licensed?
  - icebraining 8y ago
    > There’s a reason you can’t buy legal services from Walmart. Well, actually... "The Law Store offers fast, face-to-face legal services in convenient Walmart locations."
    - songshu 8y ago
      I looked briefly and, correct me if you know better, but I believe The Law Store is a business partner of Walmart rather than being owned by it. So when you pay them you are not paying Walmart shareholders but its owners (who are lawyers)
      - icebraining 8y ago
        Yeah, fair enough :) I wasn't making a serious rebuttal, sorry for not being clear.
  - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
    Lawyers typically don't make all that much money until they a bunch of years and experience under their belt. You're not paying for legal representation. You're paying for all the time and effort the lawyer spend establishing their professional reputation. You or I would get laughed out of court. A professional lawyer could show up, say the same things and get taken seriously.
dgzl 8y ago
I agree with your sentiment, but I can see how this would be different. A lawyer has a career of very unique hard work that requires much self discipline, but success brings great rewards. I imagine a fulfillment center probably feels somewhat like a a cage, where "working harder" just means running the hamster wheel faster. Relatively mundane work doesn't get any more interesting the faster you do it.
chimprich 8y ago
It's disgusting because it's undignified. Workers should receive a decent wage for work performed, not pressured to perform as fast as possible for gimmicks in an ever quicker race to the bottom to see who can wreck their health the fastest. It's not as if Amazon can't afford to provide decent working conditions.
- time-domain0 8y ago
  Amazon UK had bathrooms outside of airport-style security where workers had to regularly pee in soda bottles because their minimum performance goals didn't allow time for the distant odyssey and security theater required for a bathroom break.
  - shubb 8y ago
    So power hours are actually the hour before lunch, and everyone is running around because they are desperately trying to hold it in?
- orbifold 8y ago
  They literally can’t afford it, they have razor thin margins. Their business model depends on inhumane working conditions, which is why I would be glad to see them go (not that this will happen, but at least in Germany they have received some pushback against their practices)
  - krapp 8y ago
    They raised base pay across the entire network just to avoid bad PR. I suspect Amazon could find the money if they wanted to.
    - onetimemanytime 8y ago
      >>I suspect Amazon could find the money if they wanted to. Or they can close down the shop if they can't find the money to do the right /required thing.
geezerjay 8y ago
> Why is it disgusting? They're being treated like dogs, pressured to perform tricks in exchange of a treat. I mean, move fast to receive raffle tickets? Seriously?
- prepend 8y ago
  This seems pretty reductive of all labor since we perform tricks (show up to work) in exchange for treats (wages). The context of this practice matters quite a bit, but it’s hard to say that work incentive programs are undignified because dogs get treats for tasks.
  - geezerjay 8y ago
    Working is not a trick and earning your livelihood is not a treat. A lousy raffle isn't even a form of income.
    - prepend 8y ago
      Working is a series of tricks that I would never do unless I got a bunch of treats. And a raffle is literally a form of income since it has value and is taxed as income. Perhaps you mean getting a raffle ticket and losing isn’t income.
- AlexTWithBeard 8y ago
  > pressured to perform tricks in exchange of a treat. You've just described my whole life...
simias 8y ago
The gap between the rich and the poor keeps widening. You can rationalize it any way you want but more and more people are shocked by the obscenity to have people like Jeff Bezos sleep on mattresses filled with dollar bills while the people working for his company are paid crap wages for an exhausting and unfulfilling job. I'm not saying that Bezos and the people packing goods in a warehouse should be paid equally but the absolutely obvious unfairness of the modern capitalist economy is simply unbearable for more and more people. The fact that many people still don't seem to have any issue with having somebody earn effectively a thousand times more money than their employees is absolutely baffling. And then they go around shopping for tax rebates for their new headquarters. Everything is fine people, the system is working. IMO this (and global warming) are going to be the downfall of capitalism. There's too much greed. Too many rich people complaining about taxes while people sleep in the streets. As a result people will turn more and more towards populists as they feel betrayed by the elites. That's how you end up with Trump, Bolsonaro, the populist government in Italy and the current protests in France. People know that they are getting shafted.
internet_user 8y ago
pretty sure lawyers don't work for raffle tickets.

krapp 8y ago

Lawyers are compensated better for their time than Amazon warehouse workers. The raffle tickets aren't for, you know, a performance bonus or anything of value, it's just a cheap gimmick.

songshu 8y ago
Also the reason lawyers make so much is that they have the best trade unions ever. There’s a reason you can’t buy legal services from Walmart.
- jstanley 8y ago
  No, the reason lawyers make so much is that they have knowledge and skills that are in high demand and that most people don't have. Software developers don't have any trade union at all, and we're paid well. The reason you can't buy legal services from Walmart is the same reason you can't buy software development from Walmart. It's just not their business.
  - badpun 8y ago
    In Poland, lawyers got deunionized to a large degree around 10 years ago, and the result is that most lawyers with private practices are no longer making great money, or are plain struggling. The only ones who make a very good living are those in niche specialisations, handling corporate interests.
    - arethuza 8y ago
      In the UK at least, a lot of lawyers (particularly partners of small firms) make a lot less money than people might think.
  - songshu 8y ago
    Can you imagine how much more software developers would earn if we were unionized as lawyers are? If you couldn't practice without a license? If you needed to go school for $$$ before being licensed?
- icebraining 8y ago
  > There’s a reason you can’t buy legal services from Walmart. Well, actually... "The Law Store offers fast, face-to-face legal services in convenient Walmart locations."
  - songshu 8y ago
    I looked briefly and, correct me if you know better, but I believe The Law Store is a business partner of Walmart rather than being owned by it. So when you pay them you are not paying Walmart shareholders but its owners (who are lawyers)
    - icebraining 8y ago
      Yeah, fair enough :) I wasn't making a serious rebuttal, sorry for not being clear.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  Lawyers typically don't make all that much money until they a bunch of years and experience under their belt. You're not paying for legal representation. You're paying for all the time and effort the lawyer spend establishing their professional reputation. You or I would get laughed out of court. A professional lawyer could show up, say the same things and get taken seriously.

dgzl 8y ago

I agree with your sentiment, but I can see how this would be different. A lawyer has a career of very unique hard work that requires much self discipline, but success brings great rewards. I imagine a fulfillment center probably feels somewhat like a a cage, where "working harder" just means running the hamster wheel faster. Relatively mundane work doesn't get any more interesting the faster you do it.

chimprich 8y ago

It's disgusting because it's undignified. Workers should receive a decent wage for work performed, not pressured to perform as fast as possible for gimmicks in an ever quicker race to the bottom to see who can wreck their health the fastest. It's not as if Amazon can't afford to provide decent working conditions.

time-domain0 8y ago
Amazon UK had bathrooms outside of airport-style security where workers had to regularly pee in soda bottles because their minimum performance goals didn't allow time for the distant odyssey and security theater required for a bathroom break.
- shubb 8y ago
  So power hours are actually the hour before lunch, and everyone is running around because they are desperately trying to hold it in?
orbifold 8y ago
They literally can’t afford it, they have razor thin margins. Their business model depends on inhumane working conditions, which is why I would be glad to see them go (not that this will happen, but at least in Germany they have received some pushback against their practices)
- krapp 8y ago
  They raised base pay across the entire network just to avoid bad PR. I suspect Amazon could find the money if they wanted to.
  - onetimemanytime 8y ago
    >>I suspect Amazon could find the money if they wanted to. Or they can close down the shop if they can't find the money to do the right /required thing.

geezerjay 8y ago

> Why is it disgusting? They're being treated like dogs, pressured to perform tricks in exchange of a treat. I mean, move fast to receive raffle tickets? Seriously?

prepend 8y ago
This seems pretty reductive of all labor since we perform tricks (show up to work) in exchange for treats (wages). The context of this practice matters quite a bit, but it’s hard to say that work incentive programs are undignified because dogs get treats for tasks.
- geezerjay 8y ago
  Working is not a trick and earning your livelihood is not a treat. A lousy raffle isn't even a form of income.
  - prepend 8y ago
    Working is a series of tricks that I would never do unless I got a bunch of treats. And a raffle is literally a form of income since it has value and is taxed as income. Perhaps you mean getting a raffle ticket and losing isn’t income.
AlexTWithBeard 8y ago
> pressured to perform tricks in exchange of a treat. You've just described my whole life...

simias 8y ago

The gap between the rich and the poor keeps widening. You can rationalize it any way you want but more and more people are shocked by the obscenity to have people like Jeff Bezos sleep on mattresses filled with dollar bills while the people working for his company are paid crap wages for an exhausting and unfulfilling job. I'm not saying that Bezos and the people packing goods in a warehouse should be paid equally but the absolutely obvious unfairness of the modern capitalist economy is simply unbearable for more and more people. The fact that many people still don't seem to have any issue with having somebody earn effectively a thousand times more money than their employees is absolutely baffling. And then they go around shopping for tax rebates for their new headquarters. Everything is fine people, the system is working. IMO this (and global warming) are going to be the downfall of capitalism. There's too much greed. Too many rich people complaining about taxes while people sleep in the streets. As a result people will turn more and more towards populists as they feel betrayed by the elites. That's how you end up with Trump, Bolsonaro, the populist government in Italy and the current protests in France. People know that they are getting shafted.

internet_user 8y ago

pretty sure lawyers don't work for raffle tickets.