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Many people in the US criticized that behavior from the NSA. Maybe you didn't notice those stories. It doesn't make all other instances of hacking or spying oka

Many people in the US criticized that behavior from the NSA. Maybe you didn't notice those stories. It doesn't make all other instances of hacking or spying okay. But surveillance is one issue (which is valid and we should talk about it). Stealing intellectual property using your intelligence apparatus in a way that benefits your state-sponsored businesses is another. We can talk about that too.

zaptheimpaler 8y ago
People did criticize it but that didn’t stop them did it? Last I checked Snowden was declared a criminal. I’m talking about the Chinese governments perspective. From their perspective, until the the NSA stops spying (whether its criticized by US citizens or not) it does not make sense for China to stop spying either, purely to equalize the playing field. I’m against spying too but i can understand why any country wants to protect its interests.
- fermienrico 8y ago
  “People did criticize it...” In China, that is not possible. Freedom of speech does not exist nor does freedom of press. Whether critizing made a difference (btw, yes it did. Snowden’s revelations has had a profound impact on spying on citizens, not just in the US but in the history of mankind in the digital age) is irrelevant. China deserves criticism and so does US. The difference is that in the US, we can freely critize everything without the fear of anything. China has no such luxury and therefore, it needs even more criticism.
- wybiral 8y ago
  There is a FISA court system in place preventing random access to data collected by the NSA. It has to be obtained via warrant, on record, from a judge. Most of it is metadata (call times, etc) and most of it was collected by cooperating with tech companies. The rumors about widespread NSA infiltration into all of our devices via hacking were greatly exaggerated. The closest you come to that is with the CIA Vault 7 stuff (from WikiLeaks) which as we now know probably came from Russian sources, was probably also exaggerated, and we don't have any proof that it was used outside of targeted operations. It would be dumb for government not to develop tools for dealing with other nation-state hackers. In fact, maybe that's exactly how we can pin attribution to China in this case. I'll repeat my previous position: > [...] surveillance is one issue (which is valid and we should talk about it). Stealing intellectual property using your intelligence apparatus in a way that benefits your state-sponsored businesses is another. We can talk about that too. There is a difference, imo, and we should continue to talk about what China is clearly doing.

zaptheimpaler 8y ago

People did criticize it but that didn’t stop them did it? Last I checked Snowden was declared a criminal. I’m talking about the Chinese governments perspective. From their perspective, until the the NSA stops spying (whether its criticized by US citizens or not) it does not make sense for China to stop spying either, purely to equalize the playing field. I’m against spying too but i can understand why any country wants to protect its interests.

fermienrico 8y ago
“People did criticize it...” In China, that is not possible. Freedom of speech does not exist nor does freedom of press. Whether critizing made a difference (btw, yes it did. Snowden’s revelations has had a profound impact on spying on citizens, not just in the US but in the history of mankind in the digital age) is irrelevant. China deserves criticism and so does US. The difference is that in the US, we can freely critize everything without the fear of anything. China has no such luxury and therefore, it needs even more criticism.
wybiral 8y ago
There is a FISA court system in place preventing random access to data collected by the NSA. It has to be obtained via warrant, on record, from a judge. Most of it is metadata (call times, etc) and most of it was collected by cooperating with tech companies. The rumors about widespread NSA infiltration into all of our devices via hacking were greatly exaggerated. The closest you come to that is with the CIA Vault 7 stuff (from WikiLeaks) which as we now know probably came from Russian sources, was probably also exaggerated, and we don't have any proof that it was used outside of targeted operations. It would be dumb for government not to develop tools for dealing with other nation-state hackers. In fact, maybe that's exactly how we can pin attribution to China in this case. I'll repeat my previous position: > [...] surveillance is one issue (which is valid and we should talk about it). Stealing intellectual property using your intelligence apparatus in a way that benefits your state-sponsored businesses is another. We can talk about that too. There is a difference, imo, and we should continue to talk about what China is clearly doing.