We're absolutely working with physical stuff still. However, if there's a continuum between mathematics and engineering, I think software is much closer to the

We're absolutely working with physical stuff still. However, if there's a continuum between mathematics and engineering, I think software is much closer to the former than the latter. I think 'working with real physical systems which obey physical laws' is necessary, but not sufficient to qualify a discipline as engineering. Architects are not typically engineers by the title, and yet they design real things, and have to worry about some aspects of pragmatic engineering when they work. Neither are applied physicists, even though their work to defines many of tools that engineers use. I'm not sure that the task of creation scales isometrically. I think there's a certain allometric aspect that means that the kind of thinking required at 8 orders of magnitude has a radically different shape to that at 20 orders of magnitude; there are still some hard yeses and hard nos (you can't build a Dyson shell out of adamantium), but the amount of grey area is vastly, non-linearly larger, and requires a lot more ad-hoc construction to work within, and thus strips away the shared language of rigor that engineering has the benefit of operating under. I hope I haven't made it sound like I think it's completely black and white, and also that I somehow don't think software is hard. I just think it's a different kind of animal, because of the scale that it operates at, and the number of abstractions it depends on, even if it can't embrace them fully and transcend into pure mathematics.