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> I take pride in paying my taxes. It reminds me that our society has a cost, and we all contribute towards it. Society's cost needs to be constrained by taxpa

> I take pride in paying my taxes. It reminds me that our society has a cost, and we all contribute towards it. Society's cost needs to be constrained by taxpayers. We need to put pressure on our governments to spend our tax dollars efficiently. I live in California, so I pay state income tax as well as Federal income tax. I don't think I get as much per dollar of my tax as someone in Europe does. Europeans pay a little bit more than me (yes, only a little bit, I did the math) and get a lot more from their government, including comprehensive public transit that makes transit in the USA look like a joke, a much better social safety net, comprehensive health care not tied to their employers, schools that are actually good, low-cost higher education, etc. People in the UK get more from their government under Tory austerity policies than Americans ever got. I don't want to pay more taxes until I get more for each dollar. If the Europeans can do it, so can we, but the political will does not exist here.

guelo 8y ago
Your tax dollars pay for a lot more military than the Europeans do.
- twblalock 8y ago
  Yeah, but that's an efficiency problem, both in the sense that the Department of Defense is not efficient with money and that we have more military than we need.
  - jki275 8y ago
    And a significant portion of the DOD's budget is spent protecting other countries, many of them even in Europe.
- Varcht 8y ago
  Our tax dollars pay for more of their military than they do...
  - iscrewyou 8y ago
    Do you have a source for this? That WE pay (or more) for THEIR military.
    - alexanderwept 8y ago
      Here's three data points: Germany pays $45B/yr for defense [0] The United States pays for 22% of NATO [1] The United States' defense spending accounts for >70% of all expenditures by NATO countries [2] Personally, I'd like to kick Germany and Turkey out of NATO and threaten to kick out everyone who doesn't spend at least 2% of their GDP on defense. [0]https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/nato-ally-germany-urged-u-s-its-military-spending-n869206 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/nato-ally-germany-urged-u... [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/how-nato-budget-is-funded-2018-7 https://www.businessinsider.com/how-nato-budget-is-funded-20... [2] https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/03/nato-spending-2017.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/03/nato-spending-2017.html
    - albntomat0 8y ago
      The argument is not that the US is literally paying for country X's military. It's that counties benefit from being under the US's umbrella (such as through NATO), and thus do not spend as much as they would if the US had a much smaller military. This has been a major talking point of the current president [0]. The more nuanced question is if the resulting power + influence is worth the cost for the US. [0]: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/03/nato-spending-2017.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/03/nato-spending-2017.html
      - hevi_jos 8y ago
        You use the words "benefit" an "umbrella" that are actually euphemisms for the military occupation of defeated countries after WWII. A country does not benefit having another country occupying their land. Germany is the fourth manufacturer of weapons of the world, they do not need to be defended or protected like the world "umbrella" implies, they can do it on their own. If the Germans-Europeans had to pay for all the cost involved in the occupation there will be no reason to have the US army on Europe's land.
- Kalium 8y ago
  My California tax dollars don't. And I'm not always sure what I get for them.
rorykoehler 8y ago
As a European I agree and I also think European countries as a whole are hugely inefficient on how they use tax money. We should pay taxes and we should demand ever increasing efficiency with equal great enthusiasm.
- fesoliveira 8y ago
  If you guys think that Europe or the US are inefficient in using tax money, try looking at Brazil and see what inefficient really looks like.
  - rorykoehler 8y ago
    No doubt. I have many Brazilian friends and all I can say is "holy fuck". I'm sorry your country is so damaged.
didibus 8y ago
I think this is the challenge. Balancing efficiency and contributions. If government is over-budgeted, it can become lazy, tempted to put some of it in their pockets, etc. Under-budgeted, it can break down, such as what is hapenning to Greece. That's just a hard problem honestly. With no clear answers. That said, I do feel in the US, people don't actually want the government to give them anything. They're against having it offer affordable health-care, or education, or child care, or paternity/maternity leaves, or environmental safeguards, or proper water cleaning facilities, or art projects, or fund research, etc. So on one hand people are dismissive of most things the government could provide. But on the other hand, the money is still collected in taxes, it just goes in other things. I think it hurts priority discussions a bit. It would be one thing to say, cut taxes. But it's another to say, given the current budget, don't spend it on anything nice, because that would be too communist of us. So where does all the money go then? Military?

guelo 8y ago

Your tax dollars pay for a lot more military than the Europeans do.

twblalock 8y ago
Yeah, but that's an efficiency problem, both in the sense that the Department of Defense is not efficient with money and that we have more military than we need.
- jki275 8y ago
  And a significant portion of the DOD's budget is spent protecting other countries, many of them even in Europe.
Varcht 8y ago
Our tax dollars pay for more of their military than they do...
- iscrewyou 8y ago
  Do you have a source for this? That WE pay (or more) for THEIR military.
  - alexanderwept 8y ago
    Here's three data points: Germany pays $45B/yr for defense [0] The United States pays for 22% of NATO [1] The United States' defense spending accounts for >70% of all expenditures by NATO countries [2] Personally, I'd like to kick Germany and Turkey out of NATO and threaten to kick out everyone who doesn't spend at least 2% of their GDP on defense. [0]https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/nato-ally-germany-urged-u-s-its-military-spending-n869206 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/nato-ally-germany-urged-u... [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/how-nato-budget-is-funded-2018-7 https://www.businessinsider.com/how-nato-budget-is-funded-20... [2] https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/03/nato-spending-2017.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/03/nato-spending-2017.html
  - albntomat0 8y ago
    The argument is not that the US is literally paying for country X's military. It's that counties benefit from being under the US's umbrella (such as through NATO), and thus do not spend as much as they would if the US had a much smaller military. This has been a major talking point of the current president [0]. The more nuanced question is if the resulting power + influence is worth the cost for the US. [0]: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/03/nato-spending-2017.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/03/nato-spending-2017.html
    - hevi_jos 8y ago
      You use the words "benefit" an "umbrella" that are actually euphemisms for the military occupation of defeated countries after WWII. A country does not benefit having another country occupying their land. Germany is the fourth manufacturer of weapons of the world, they do not need to be defended or protected like the world "umbrella" implies, they can do it on their own. If the Germans-Europeans had to pay for all the cost involved in the occupation there will be no reason to have the US army on Europe's land.
Kalium 8y ago
My California tax dollars don't. And I'm not always sure what I get for them.

rorykoehler 8y ago

As a European I agree and I also think European countries as a whole are hugely inefficient on how they use tax money. We should pay taxes and we should demand ever increasing efficiency with equal great enthusiasm.

fesoliveira 8y ago
If you guys think that Europe or the US are inefficient in using tax money, try looking at Brazil and see what inefficient really looks like.
- rorykoehler 8y ago
  No doubt. I have many Brazilian friends and all I can say is "holy fuck". I'm sorry your country is so damaged.

didibus 8y ago

I think this is the challenge. Balancing efficiency and contributions. If government is over-budgeted, it can become lazy, tempted to put some of it in their pockets, etc. Under-budgeted, it can break down, such as what is hapenning to Greece. That's just a hard problem honestly. With no clear answers. That said, I do feel in the US, people don't actually want the government to give them anything. They're against having it offer affordable health-care, or education, or child care, or paternity/maternity leaves, or environmental safeguards, or proper water cleaning facilities, or art projects, or fund research, etc. So on one hand people are dismissive of most things the government could provide. But on the other hand, the money is still collected in taxes, it just goes in other things. I think it hurts priority discussions a bit. It would be one thing to say, cut taxes. But it's another to say, given the current budget, don't spend it on anything nice, because that would be too communist of us. So where does all the money go then? Military?