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Governance matters. My feelings are similar to yours when it comes to paying my LOCAL taxes (e.g. property and sales). Because: (1) I care about the services

Governance matters. My feelings are similar to yours when it comes to paying my LOCAL taxes (e.g. property and sales). Because: (1) I care about the services that my local government provides (e.g. schools, parks, libraries, roads and infrastructure), and (2) My local county happens to do a good job at providing those services. On the contrary, I view the FEDERAL government as a complete and utter mess. Spending all of my contributions (as well as those borrowed from my grandkids) on grotesquely inefficient entitlement programs, an imperial military, and basically just bribing corrupt government officials so that anything can get passed at all. I feel no moral qualms whatever with avoiding those taxes to the extent legally possible.

mullingitover 8y ago
You know your local infrastructure would collapse or become breathtakingly costly if it wasn't propped up by Federal funds, right?
- nicwolff 8y ago
  I live in New York; we remit something like $50B/year more to the Federal government than we receive. I paid about $650K to the Feds last year, and while I don't begrudge the shared responsibility, it's hard not to feel like a prime sucker sending so much to a government that will to allocate it mostly to states whose inhabitants voted for a President who would agree that I was foolish to have been so honest.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - fwip 8y ago
    Forgive me for not feeling sorry for somebody pulling in 7 figures a year.
  - burfog 8y ago
    Like you, the President has a place in New York and he lived there until he became eligible for government housing in DC. I think you have his sympathy on the taxes. There was that one year that he paid for an F-15 with all the extras.
    - setpatchaddress 8y ago
      You’re gonna defend Trump on taxes? Is your brain infected with worms, Peter?
- Taek 8y ago
  This is a straw man argument that hand waives away all of the issues and complaints of the people who protest the federal government. One doesn't need to believe in anarchy to believe that the federal government is out of control and should be heavily reformed.
sp527 8y ago
Inefficiency is its own extra ‘tax’ and inherent to any sufficiently large complex system. But if the federal government didn’t in fact have meaningfully nonzero efficacy, your life would be considerably worse. Pay your taxes.
r00fus 8y ago
> On the contrary, I view the FEDERAL government as a complete and utter mess. Medicare is one of the most successful government programs ever. Social Security would be a disaster if done by different jurisdictions or privately. I could go on, but there's a lot that Federal government does right. Governance matters, so I vote for the people who think likewise.
- will_brown 8y ago
  >Medicare is one of the most successful government programs ever. I guess it depends on how you define successful. It’s the single largest budget item (>$1T/year), it’s largely wasteful, and our populace is only getting sicker (more chronic conditions and medications). We don’t aim to treat chronic illness in Medicare patients either we aim to manage it...it’s broken. And if you don’t believe it’s broken, all you need to do is look at the current transition from pay per service to outcome/managed based reimbursements to see even CMS has waived the white flag. Care will only decline as your Medicare insurer will own your primary care doctor, your specialists, the local hospital and your pharmacy under this system. >Social Security would be a disaster if done by different jurisdictions or privately. Have you received your SOcial Security Administration Statement? I don’t know about yours, I guess it varies by retirement age, but the last one I got informed me I should expect to receive $.42 for every $1 I put in...that is a broken system.
  - r00fus 8y ago
    Medicare is more efficient than private insurance even given its only providing services to the most vulnerable (and costly) population. If the risk pool were to expand to the entire age set, it would probably completely outcompete any private options.
    - will_brown 8y ago
      >Medicare is more efficient than private insurance even given its only providing services to the most vulnerable (and costly) population. That’s what makes it so inefficient. In the 70’s, private insurance got into Medicare. In 2003 the flood gates opened with Medicare “Advatage Plans” which are private insurance managed care. The numbers of patients opting for Medicare Advantage is growing every year and now accounts for 1 in 3 Medicare patients...and they’re often the chronic care patients (most vulnerable and costly). This has directly lead to market consolidation (lack of choice in plans, networks, doctors). It has also lead to outcomes based reimbursement while the market leaders are reinventing HMO so they can get paid for a managed care system and not be subject to outcomes based payments. I’d be all for a system like you’re talking about, a single payer system, but that doesn’t exist, and private insurance is running amuck with the $1T+ Medicare budget.

mullingitover 8y ago

You know your local infrastructure would collapse or become breathtakingly costly if it wasn't propped up by Federal funds, right?

nicwolff 8y ago
I live in New York; we remit something like $50B/year more to the Federal government than we receive. I paid about $650K to the Feds last year, and while I don't begrudge the shared responsibility, it's hard not to feel like a prime sucker sending so much to a government that will to allocate it mostly to states whose inhabitants voted for a President who would agree that I was foolish to have been so honest.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- fwip 8y ago
  Forgive me for not feeling sorry for somebody pulling in 7 figures a year.
- burfog 8y ago
  Like you, the President has a place in New York and he lived there until he became eligible for government housing in DC. I think you have his sympathy on the taxes. There was that one year that he paid for an F-15 with all the extras.
  - setpatchaddress 8y ago
    You’re gonna defend Trump on taxes? Is your brain infected with worms, Peter?
Taek 8y ago
This is a straw man argument that hand waives away all of the issues and complaints of the people who protest the federal government. One doesn't need to believe in anarchy to believe that the federal government is out of control and should be heavily reformed.

sp527 8y ago

Inefficiency is its own extra ‘tax’ and inherent to any sufficiently large complex system. But if the federal government didn’t in fact have meaningfully nonzero efficacy, your life would be considerably worse. Pay your taxes.

r00fus 8y ago

> On the contrary, I view the FEDERAL government as a complete and utter mess. Medicare is one of the most successful government programs ever. Social Security would be a disaster if done by different jurisdictions or privately. I could go on, but there's a lot that Federal government does right. Governance matters, so I vote for the people who think likewise.

will_brown 8y ago
>Medicare is one of the most successful government programs ever. I guess it depends on how you define successful. It’s the single largest budget item (>$1T/year), it’s largely wasteful, and our populace is only getting sicker (more chronic conditions and medications). We don’t aim to treat chronic illness in Medicare patients either we aim to manage it...it’s broken. And if you don’t believe it’s broken, all you need to do is look at the current transition from pay per service to outcome/managed based reimbursements to see even CMS has waived the white flag. Care will only decline as your Medicare insurer will own your primary care doctor, your specialists, the local hospital and your pharmacy under this system. >Social Security would be a disaster if done by different jurisdictions or privately. Have you received your SOcial Security Administration Statement? I don’t know about yours, I guess it varies by retirement age, but the last one I got informed me I should expect to receive $.42 for every $1 I put in...that is a broken system.
- r00fus 8y ago
  Medicare is more efficient than private insurance even given its only providing services to the most vulnerable (and costly) population. If the risk pool were to expand to the entire age set, it would probably completely outcompete any private options.
  - will_brown 8y ago
    >Medicare is more efficient than private insurance even given its only providing services to the most vulnerable (and costly) population. That’s what makes it so inefficient. In the 70’s, private insurance got into Medicare. In 2003 the flood gates opened with Medicare “Advatage Plans” which are private insurance managed care. The numbers of patients opting for Medicare Advantage is growing every year and now accounts for 1 in 3 Medicare patients...and they’re often the chronic care patients (most vulnerable and costly). This has directly lead to market consolidation (lack of choice in plans, networks, doctors). It has also lead to outcomes based reimbursement while the market leaders are reinventing HMO so they can get paid for a managed care system and not be subject to outcomes based payments. I’d be all for a system like you’re talking about, a single payer system, but that doesn’t exist, and private insurance is running amuck with the $1T+ Medicare budget.