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What? Who voted those people into power? Who decided what to buy, thereby improving the market share of one company over another? Who decided that mass-produced

What? Who voted those people into power? Who decided what to buy, thereby improving the market share of one company over another? Who decided that mass-produced, disposable goods were the way to go with no thought about the long-term impact? Who secured their own nest-egg and then actively worked to drive down wages and costs to improve investment returns? Saying the entire generation except those in power didn't do shit but live life is sort of downplaying the impact of choices every single person made. Choices made with seemingly no thought to their longer-term implications for the world. Also, pulling 'those in power' out of the context of their generation doesn't really make sense to me. That statement appears to want to remove responsibility from literally every person who was alive, except maybe governmental leaders and the heads of the top 100 companies or however many. I would argue that you are both correct and incorrect. They did live life in their time, exactly how we are living now - just living life day to day within the context of their times. But that doesn't remove responsibility for their decisions. It appears to me that boomers especially lived their lives with less emphasis on what the future may hold and less focus on the long-term implications of everyday people's decisions. They appeared to live without understanding that they really are a small part of what we would call society's choices, but a part nonetheless. God I hope all that makes sense. I feel like maybe it rambled a little.

sulam 8y ago
No one age group ("generation") voted Trump into office/power. You can't blame GenX, Boomers, GenY, or Millenials specifically for the current political climate. You can't even blame "Conservatives" specifically -- if Trump had only won the Conservative vote he'd have lost the election. The world is complicated. Reductionism is great for story-telling, but these stories should not be confused for anything other than an approximation, like a map is only an approximation of the territory.
- jen20 8y ago
  One age group _overwhelmingly_ voted for Brexit though.
- Loughla 8y ago
  That's what I'm saying. The person I responded to was trying to absolve the current generation of the state of affairs which future generations will have to endure. And that's just not accurate. Some things (like Brexit) are solidly on the backs of one generation, but others (oh Trump) aren't as easy to draw distinctions. Therefore, you can't just wave your hand and cast blame on previous or future generations.
temp-dude-87844 8y ago
They bought mass-produced, disposable goods because that's the kind of product that was in stores. Stores themselves were fairly new. Not that long before, goods were artisanal, produced in low volumes by skilled craftsmen. Obtaining such a product frequently required a personal relationship, a long wait, and a lot of money. The 1950s American consumer culture enjoyed by the parents of middle-class Boomers was a time of significant gains in living standards, both perceived and actual. Refraining from that life would have meant being left behind on the margins of society. Their children, Boomers, didn't build the world they lived in: they just all tried to optimize for their well-being and choose the least bad out of options presented, just like everyone else. Moral questions about collective responsibility are always odd, because swimming against the wave requires one to value a moral code over their stability and prosperity: either because they're far from peril and afford to take a stand a moral stand, or because their safety is already precarious and they have more to gain than to lose. The people getting by in the middle preserve that by conforming. They buy the disposable stuff in the store, because the alternative has a higher upfront cost. They project a political stance that works best in their peer group, but in the presence of opportunity and information, they won't vote in a way that might endanger their status. The collective actions of each generation's majority is what led us to where we are today, but it's a mistake to treat their choices as a selfish display. Self-preservation is normal. Examine the factors that limited their choices. That's where the course of the future was already decided, years ahead of time.
andrewmcwatters 8y ago
> Who voted those people into power? So, if you are a voter (or even if you're not!) in today's political landscape, you're responsible for the outcome. > Who decided what to buy... If you're a consumer, you're first-hand making a decision about the future that children should live in. > Who secured their own nest-egg and then actively worked to drive down wages and costs to improve investment returns? I wasn't aware those who have held mutual funds had actively worked to drive down wages. How did they do that? Did they fly out, sit in shareholder meetings, and ask if there was a way they could stop paying employees so much? In the 70s and 80s, was that something Americans did, besides taking vacations, and flying kites with their kids? Is there a way for people who want to retire to do this now? How do I go about actively making decisions in publicly traded companies; I wasn't aware the average American with a 401(k) could do this. > Saying the entire generation except those in power didn't do shit but live life is sort of downplaying the impact of choices every single person made. Yeah, you're absolutely right. All people who eat meat, _all_ people, are responsible for climate change. People who eat meat. People who drive to work. People who work for companies that have a net positive carbon footprint. Because you have the right to choose where you work, so that's not an excuse! People who use phones. Can you tell me what phone manufacturer has suppliers that have entirely net negative carbon footprints? Ones that don't contribute to abuse in any realm of their logistics cycle? Please. God forbid you contribute to the growth of any Russell 3000 component or company abroad who has a net positive carbon footprint (hint: we all do). I'm curious where this self-righteous attitude comes from, and why it's so pervasive today. Has this always been the case? Are we just finding new ways of expressing it today? And at what point does this self-righteousness end? Should I concern myself with the tens of thousands of factors that contribute to the evolution of society? Which ones should I concern myself with the most, surely there's an answer with this surety of response. You're so confident about this. Thankfully, we have such confident generations around now who can tell us where we're all wrong. I can't wait for my children to tell me how shamefully I lived my life.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> Who voted those people into power? For most of the things they Boomers get blamed for? The Silent and Greatest Generations, mostly.

sulam 8y ago

No one age group ("generation") voted Trump into office/power. You can't blame GenX, Boomers, GenY, or Millenials specifically for the current political climate. You can't even blame "Conservatives" specifically -- if Trump had only won the Conservative vote he'd have lost the election. The world is complicated. Reductionism is great for story-telling, but these stories should not be confused for anything other than an approximation, like a map is only an approximation of the territory.

jen20 8y ago
One age group _overwhelmingly_ voted for Brexit though.
Loughla 8y ago
That's what I'm saying. The person I responded to was trying to absolve the current generation of the state of affairs which future generations will have to endure. And that's just not accurate. Some things (like Brexit) are solidly on the backs of one generation, but others (oh Trump) aren't as easy to draw distinctions. Therefore, you can't just wave your hand and cast blame on previous or future generations.

temp-dude-87844 8y ago

They bought mass-produced, disposable goods because that's the kind of product that was in stores. Stores themselves were fairly new. Not that long before, goods were artisanal, produced in low volumes by skilled craftsmen. Obtaining such a product frequently required a personal relationship, a long wait, and a lot of money. The 1950s American consumer culture enjoyed by the parents of middle-class Boomers was a time of significant gains in living standards, both perceived and actual. Refraining from that life would have meant being left behind on the margins of society. Their children, Boomers, didn't build the world they lived in: they just all tried to optimize for their well-being and choose the least bad out of options presented, just like everyone else. Moral questions about collective responsibility are always odd, because swimming against the wave requires one to value a moral code over their stability and prosperity: either because they're far from peril and afford to take a stand a moral stand, or because their safety is already precarious and they have more to gain than to lose. The people getting by in the middle preserve that by conforming. They buy the disposable stuff in the store, because the alternative has a higher upfront cost. They project a political stance that works best in their peer group, but in the presence of opportunity and information, they won't vote in a way that might endanger their status. The collective actions of each generation's majority is what led us to where we are today, but it's a mistake to treat their choices as a selfish display. Self-preservation is normal. Examine the factors that limited their choices. That's where the course of the future was already decided, years ahead of time.

andrewmcwatters 8y ago

> Who voted those people into power? So, if you are a voter (or even if you're not!) in today's political landscape, you're responsible for the outcome. > Who decided what to buy... If you're a consumer, you're first-hand making a decision about the future that children should live in. > Who secured their own nest-egg and then actively worked to drive down wages and costs to improve investment returns? I wasn't aware those who have held mutual funds had actively worked to drive down wages. How did they do that? Did they fly out, sit in shareholder meetings, and ask if there was a way they could stop paying employees so much? In the 70s and 80s, was that something Americans did, besides taking vacations, and flying kites with their kids? Is there a way for people who want to retire to do this now? How do I go about actively making decisions in publicly traded companies; I wasn't aware the average American with a 401(k) could do this. > Saying the entire generation except those in power didn't do shit but live life is sort of downplaying the impact of choices every single person made. Yeah, you're absolutely right. All people who eat meat, _all_ people, are responsible for climate change. People who eat meat. People who drive to work. People who work for companies that have a net positive carbon footprint. Because you have the right to choose where you work, so that's not an excuse! People who use phones. Can you tell me what phone manufacturer has suppliers that have entirely net negative carbon footprints? Ones that don't contribute to abuse in any realm of their logistics cycle? Please. God forbid you contribute to the growth of any Russell 3000 component or company abroad who has a net positive carbon footprint (hint: we all do). I'm curious where this self-righteous attitude comes from, and why it's so pervasive today. Has this always been the case? Are we just finding new ways of expressing it today? And at what point does this self-righteousness end? Should I concern myself with the tens of thousands of factors that contribute to the evolution of society? Which ones should I concern myself with the most, surely there's an answer with this surety of response. You're so confident about this. Thankfully, we have such confident generations around now who can tell us where we're all wrong. I can't wait for my children to tell me how shamefully I lived my life.

dragonwriter 8y ago

> Who voted those people into power? For most of the things they Boomers get blamed for? The Silent and Greatest Generations, mostly.