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I mean, that's all kind of bullshit, too. In the same sort of way that if you don't drive a Prius or aren't a vegan you contribute to climate change. Gen X'ers

I mean, that's all kind of bullshit, too. In the same sort of way that if you don't drive a Prius or aren't a vegan you contribute to climate change. Gen X'ers and Baby Boomers didn't really do shit except live life in the time they did like Millennials and Gen Z'ers do now; it was the people in power who had impact. There's too much pointing fingers in the wrong direction when it comes to these discussions. It wasn't my father who fucked my future over, though people elected during his time had significant impact on educational and housing policies today. You could say he voted for these things, but that's still painting an entire generation in the wrong light, sometimes you don't have a choice. Imagine in the future blaming Millennials and Gen Z'ers for the problems in 2040 instead of blaming people like Trump and Macron. Incredible.

Loughla 8y ago
What? Who voted those people into power? Who decided what to buy, thereby improving the market share of one company over another? Who decided that mass-produced, disposable goods were the way to go with no thought about the long-term impact? Who secured their own nest-egg and then actively worked to drive down wages and costs to improve investment returns? Saying the entire generation except those in power didn't do shit but live life is sort of downplaying the impact of choices every single person made. Choices made with seemingly no thought to their longer-term implications for the world. Also, pulling 'those in power' out of the context of their generation doesn't really make sense to me. That statement appears to want to remove responsibility from literally every person who was alive, except maybe governmental leaders and the heads of the top 100 companies or however many. I would argue that you are both correct and incorrect. They did live life in their time, exactly how we are living now - just living life day to day within the context of their times. But that doesn't remove responsibility for their decisions. It appears to me that boomers especially lived their lives with less emphasis on what the future may hold and less focus on the long-term implications of everyday people's decisions. They appeared to live without understanding that they really are a small part of what we would call society's choices, but a part nonetheless. God I hope all that makes sense. I feel like maybe it rambled a little.
- sulam 8y ago
  No one age group ("generation") voted Trump into office/power. You can't blame GenX, Boomers, GenY, or Millenials specifically for the current political climate. You can't even blame "Conservatives" specifically -- if Trump had only won the Conservative vote he'd have lost the election. The world is complicated. Reductionism is great for story-telling, but these stories should not be confused for anything other than an approximation, like a map is only an approximation of the territory.
  - jen20 8y ago
    One age group _overwhelmingly_ voted for Brexit though.
  - Loughla 8y ago
    That's what I'm saying. The person I responded to was trying to absolve the current generation of the state of affairs which future generations will have to endure. And that's just not accurate. Some things (like Brexit) are solidly on the backs of one generation, but others (oh Trump) aren't as easy to draw distinctions. Therefore, you can't just wave your hand and cast blame on previous or future generations.
- temp-dude-87844 8y ago
  They bought mass-produced, disposable goods because that's the kind of product that was in stores. Stores themselves were fairly new. Not that long before, goods were artisanal, produced in low volumes by skilled craftsmen. Obtaining such a product frequently required a personal relationship, a long wait, and a lot of money. The 1950s American consumer culture enjoyed by the parents of middle-class Boomers was a time of significant gains in living standards, both perceived and actual. Refraining from that life would have meant being left behind on the margins of society. Their children, Boomers, didn't build the world they lived in: they just all tried to optimize for their well-being and choose the least bad out of options presented, just like everyone else. Moral questions about collective responsibility are always odd, because swimming against the wave requires one to value a moral code over their stability and prosperity: either because they're far from peril and afford to take a stand a moral stand, or because their safety is already precarious and they have more to gain than to lose. The people getting by in the middle preserve that by conforming. They buy the disposable stuff in the store, because the alternative has a higher upfront cost. They project a political stance that works best in their peer group, but in the presence of opportunity and information, they won't vote in a way that might endanger their status. The collective actions of each generation's majority is what led us to where we are today, but it's a mistake to treat their choices as a selfish display. Self-preservation is normal. Examine the factors that limited their choices. That's where the course of the future was already decided, years ahead of time.

Loughla 8y ago

What? Who voted those people into power? Who decided what to buy, thereby improving the market share of one company over another? Who decided that mass-produced, disposable goods were the way to go with no thought about the long-term impact? Who secured their own nest-egg and then actively worked to drive down wages and costs to improve investment returns? Saying the entire generation except those in power didn't do shit but live life is sort of downplaying the impact of choices every single person made. Choices made with seemingly no thought to their longer-term implications for the world. Also, pulling 'those in power' out of the context of their generation doesn't really make sense to me. That statement appears to want to remove responsibility from literally every person who was alive, except maybe governmental leaders and the heads of the top 100 companies or however many. I would argue that you are both correct and incorrect. They did live life in their time, exactly how we are living now - just living life day to day within the context of their times. But that doesn't remove responsibility for their decisions. It appears to me that boomers especially lived their lives with less emphasis on what the future may hold and less focus on the long-term implications of everyday people's decisions. They appeared to live without understanding that they really are a small part of what we would call society's choices, but a part nonetheless. God I hope all that makes sense. I feel like maybe it rambled a little.

sulam 8y ago
No one age group ("generation") voted Trump into office/power. You can't blame GenX, Boomers, GenY, or Millenials specifically for the current political climate. You can't even blame "Conservatives" specifically -- if Trump had only won the Conservative vote he'd have lost the election. The world is complicated. Reductionism is great for story-telling, but these stories should not be confused for anything other than an approximation, like a map is only an approximation of the territory.
- jen20 8y ago
  One age group _overwhelmingly_ voted for Brexit though.
- Loughla 8y ago
  That's what I'm saying. The person I responded to was trying to absolve the current generation of the state of affairs which future generations will have to endure. And that's just not accurate. Some things (like Brexit) are solidly on the backs of one generation, but others (oh Trump) aren't as easy to draw distinctions. Therefore, you can't just wave your hand and cast blame on previous or future generations.
temp-dude-87844 8y ago
They bought mass-produced, disposable goods because that's the kind of product that was in stores. Stores themselves were fairly new. Not that long before, goods were artisanal, produced in low volumes by skilled craftsmen. Obtaining such a product frequently required a personal relationship, a long wait, and a lot of money. The 1950s American consumer culture enjoyed by the parents of middle-class Boomers was a time of significant gains in living standards, both perceived and actual. Refraining from that life would have meant being left behind on the margins of society. Their children, Boomers, didn't build the world they lived in: they just all tried to optimize for their well-being and choose the least bad out of options presented, just like everyone else. Moral questions about collective responsibility are always odd, because swimming against the wave requires one to value a moral code over their stability and prosperity: either because they're far from peril and afford to take a stand a moral stand, or because their safety is already precarious and they have more to gain than to lose. The people getting by in the middle preserve that by conforming. They buy the disposable stuff in the store, because the alternative has a higher upfront cost. They project a political stance that works best in their peer group, but in the presence of opportunity and information, they won't vote in a way that might endanger their status. The collective actions of each generation's majority is what led us to where we are today, but it's a mistake to treat their choices as a selfish display. Self-preservation is normal. Examine the factors that limited their choices. That's where the course of the future was already decided, years ahead of time.