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This era of science always fascinates me. First landing on the moon? July 20, 1969. First satellite launch? January 31, 1958. 11 years, 5 months, and 20 days.

This era of science always fascinates me. First landing on the moon? July 20, 1969. First satellite launch? January 31, 1958. 11 years, 5 months, and 20 days. Insane.

pjc50 8y ago
The clock should really start in June 1944, with the first rocket to cross the Karman Line: a V2 ballistic missile. In many ways the moon landings (and plans to nuke the moon) were the continuation of the war effort's tremendous pace of technological improvement. The early rockets were primarily designed as ICBMs with peaceful payloads as secondary adaptations. If you look at the early space programme it can really be seen as a set of milestones directly aimed at the manned moon landing - orbital manned flight with safe landing (Mercury), two-man operation (Gemini), space suits, EVA, docking, and so on.
- otras 8y ago
  Along these lines, I've always been fascinated by Operation Paperclip [0], the US effort to collect Nazi scientists that including Wernher von Braun (of V2 infamy and Saturn V fame). As Tom Lehrer sang [1], "'Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? That's not my department,' says Wernher von Braun." [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjDEsGZLbio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjDEsGZLbio
  - pm90 8y ago
    Should note that the US benefited tremendously from the emigration of thousands of highly trained scientists well before the war started due to European anti-semitism. Einstein was perhaps the most famous but there were so many more who essentially modernized the US University system, and even contributed to the War Effort (e.g. the Manhattan Project).
- MisterTea 8y ago
  > The early rockets were primarily designed as ICBMs with peaceful payloads as secondary adaptations. Von Braun was interested in astronomy and space exploration well before the war. He is quoted as saying "the rocket worked perfectly, except for landing on the wrong planet." - referring to the Sept 7 1944 launch. In essence it was a peaceful rocket turned into an ICBM and thankfully later on returned to its peaceful status. And on a side note: imagine being Von Braun after the US handed him the keys to their state of the art space program with a cold war sized budget. Beyond a dream come true.
  - pjc50 8y ago
    > Beyond a dream come true. Luckiest man in the war. He could have been killed in any number of ways during the war, he managed to surrender to the Allies and not the Soviets, and they chose not to hold him responsible for the 12,000 slave labour deaths of the V2 programme. Not all the beneficiaries of slave labour did so well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Sauckel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Sauckel
  - npunt 8y ago
    Von Braun was also the recipient of big time image rehabilitation courtesy the US, in exchange for his work after scooping them up in Operation Paperclip. Not to take anything away from his instrumental role in US rocket development, but I'd take any quotes and motivations with a grain of salt.
- pm90 8y ago
  Interesting. I wonder if we could somehow return to that clip of progress in science and technology. If we did so, who knows where the US might have been now, in terms of science and technology?
  - pjc50 8y ago
    Arguably the whole Moore's Law era proceeded at that clip, and it's given us the iPhone, GPS, various starts at ""AI"", etc. The real problem with returning to the space race was that it was fundamentally a public sector project. People seem to forget that it was the state that put a man on the moon. In 2018 the key question for such projects would be not "how can we benefit humanity" but "who gets to keep the profit"?
    - philipkglass 8y ago
      Or even more fundamentally, "is there any profit for someone to keep?" It's not like the Apollo program was the space equivalent of a state owned rail system -- capable of making money for the first private owner to take it over. It was always "in the red" if you measure such things in business terms. People twist themselves in knots trying (IMO) to assign dubious "spinoff" benefits, with dollar signs attached, to NASA work. Give up on trying to justify all scientific research in the vocabulary of business, I say. I support public funding for space probes, astronomy, high energy physics, and all sorts of other things that expand the frontiers of human knowledge without being likely to generate new commercial products or profits.
- JoeDaDude 8y ago
  Agreed, I was always fascinated with the early exploits, some of them captured in this Wikipedia list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaceflight_before_1951 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaceflight_before_1951

This era of science always fascinates me. First landing on the moon? July 20, 1969. First satellite launch? January 31, 1958. 11 years, 5 months, and 20 days. Insane.

pjc50 8y ago

The clock should really start in June 1944, with the first rocket to cross the Karman Line: a V2 ballistic missile. In many ways the moon landings (and plans to nuke the moon) were the continuation of the war effort's tremendous pace of technological improvement. The early rockets were primarily designed as ICBMs with peaceful payloads as secondary adaptations. If you look at the early space programme it can really be seen as a set of milestones directly aimed at the manned moon landing - orbital manned flight with safe landing (Mercury), two-man operation (Gemini), space suits, EVA, docking, and so on.

otras 8y ago
Along these lines, I've always been fascinated by Operation Paperclip [0], the US effort to collect Nazi scientists that including Wernher von Braun (of V2 infamy and Saturn V fame). As Tom Lehrer sang [1], "'Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? That's not my department,' says Wernher von Braun." [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjDEsGZLbio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjDEsGZLbio
- pm90 8y ago
  Should note that the US benefited tremendously from the emigration of thousands of highly trained scientists well before the war started due to European anti-semitism. Einstein was perhaps the most famous but there were so many more who essentially modernized the US University system, and even contributed to the War Effort (e.g. the Manhattan Project).
MisterTea 8y ago
> The early rockets were primarily designed as ICBMs with peaceful payloads as secondary adaptations. Von Braun was interested in astronomy and space exploration well before the war. He is quoted as saying "the rocket worked perfectly, except for landing on the wrong planet." - referring to the Sept 7 1944 launch. In essence it was a peaceful rocket turned into an ICBM and thankfully later on returned to its peaceful status. And on a side note: imagine being Von Braun after the US handed him the keys to their state of the art space program with a cold war sized budget. Beyond a dream come true.
- pjc50 8y ago
  > Beyond a dream come true. Luckiest man in the war. He could have been killed in any number of ways during the war, he managed to surrender to the Allies and not the Soviets, and they chose not to hold him responsible for the 12,000 slave labour deaths of the V2 programme. Not all the beneficiaries of slave labour did so well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Sauckel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Sauckel
- npunt 8y ago
  Von Braun was also the recipient of big time image rehabilitation courtesy the US, in exchange for his work after scooping them up in Operation Paperclip. Not to take anything away from his instrumental role in US rocket development, but I'd take any quotes and motivations with a grain of salt.
pm90 8y ago
Interesting. I wonder if we could somehow return to that clip of progress in science and technology. If we did so, who knows where the US might have been now, in terms of science and technology?
- pjc50 8y ago
  Arguably the whole Moore's Law era proceeded at that clip, and it's given us the iPhone, GPS, various starts at ""AI"", etc. The real problem with returning to the space race was that it was fundamentally a public sector project. People seem to forget that it was the state that put a man on the moon. In 2018 the key question for such projects would be not "how can we benefit humanity" but "who gets to keep the profit"?
  - philipkglass 8y ago
    Or even more fundamentally, "is there any profit for someone to keep?" It's not like the Apollo program was the space equivalent of a state owned rail system -- capable of making money for the first private owner to take it over. It was always "in the red" if you measure such things in business terms. People twist themselves in knots trying (IMO) to assign dubious "spinoff" benefits, with dollar signs attached, to NASA work. Give up on trying to justify all scientific research in the vocabulary of business, I say. I support public funding for space probes, astronomy, high energy physics, and all sorts of other things that expand the frontiers of human knowledge without being likely to generate new commercial products or profits.
JoeDaDude 8y ago
Agreed, I was always fascinated with the early exploits, some of them captured in this Wikipedia list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaceflight_before_1951 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaceflight_before_1951