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The Canadian startup scene is brutal. We have all of the downsides of valley startups with very few of the benefits. About five years ago, during my last job s

The Canadian startup scene is brutal. We have all of the downsides of valley startups with very few of the benefits. About five years ago, during my last job search, I interviewed at a well funded (Series B) AI company that was looking for a VP of Marketing. After a few months of interviews, including many early on where they had asked me for my salary expectations, they offered me a starting salary of $70,000 CAD saying that they had to "save money for Engineers because AI is expensive and engineering is more important." Another company I had worked at early in my career had two "co-CEOs" (who constantly bickered all the time in a power struggle). The claimed to have "flexible work hours" as long as you put in your regular hours and were there between the core hours of 10-3. Since it was a long drive away from me, I started doing a 7-3 shift to avoid the traffic. I noticed that the younger staff would arrive around 8:30 or 9am, but was told that they were staying until 7 or 8 at night and ordering pizza each night because nobody dared to leave before the CEOs, who were two young single guys just out of University. I felt guilted, and would end up putting in a few extra hours here and there, but, when it came time for my performance review, I was told I wasn't a "team player" because I wasn't staying to tough it out with the rest of them. The one other employee who had a family and didn't stay late said "You don't pay enough for this to be my full life" and the CEO said "well you make more than we do and look at all the time we put in" - he couldn't understand the difference in the fact that this was his company that he owned, and for others it was just a job. I've got probably a dozen stories of Canadian startups who expect top 0.1% talent, pay below market rates, and want you constantly in the office. They try and make themselves seem great with office dogs, and catered lunches but they are classic underpaid corporate jobs, with even higher expectations. After a few years, I could see why Canada faced such a brain drain of talent to the valley. Even the University of Waterloo, which is famous for its Engineers notes that Canada even companies in the city of Waterloo have trouble retaining their grads from going to the valley. I started working remote and haven't looked back. But, it's a real shame because I think Canada has such potential to be a great startup market and yet the culture is way off course.

wolco 8y ago
The Toronto startup scene is exactly like this. All of the negatives and no upside. My last company didn't allow me to work in my off hours. Paid below market, needy owner wanted to be part of the developer team so he checks in untested code at 3am.. mornings were fixing those commits. It's a culture issue maybe weaker real technical visions with ownership which creates 'medium' driven culture where everyone must be a sterotype. You are better off working for a small business. Entity in most cases should be ignored.
- wpietri 8y ago
  I really feel for you here. And I think you're right that this comes from deep weakness at the top. The investors want to get in on the Silicon Valley money. The founders channel the Silicon Valley hype. But once you've started pretending you are a genius who will make billions, you can't really switch to the sort of humility that it takes to really get things done well. So the whole company turns into an extension of the sham performance of the founders. E.g., really great people I know are constantly sweating effectiveness. They look at outcomes. They want to be sure they're having the desired impact on customers, on the company, on its people. Plenty of mediocre people focus on metrics, on following the rules, on seeking efficiency. Those aren't intrinsically bad, but can turn that way when the proximate measures don't align with outcomes. But the really scary ones I've met focus on appearance. They want butts in seats, the later the better. They create artificial deadlines and dramatic launches. They look at metrics and find ways to manipulate them with no regard for actual outcomes. If those fools were only harming themselves, I'd be ok with it. But when they harm others, often hundreds of others over the course of their companies, it's truly enraging.
steve_adams_86 8y ago
Remote work was a life changer for me too. The pay is far better, the hours are better (if you keep yourself in check at least), and... Well, I spend a lot more time with my family now, so there's nothing worse to say about it really. In the past I worked for a lot of "performance marketing" companies, but also a few more legitimate companies like Checkfront. Even Checkfront left me feeling deeply unsatisfied despite being an good group of people and decent work. I think there's just something weird going on when companies identify as startups, especially if they're seeking funding. Things deteriorate as they grow, "perks" you mentioned like dogs in the office don't make you feel any better about not seeing your kids after school, and the free coffee tastes like shit anyway. Worst of all though, you're blowing 8-10 hours a day on Canadian pay. If you're in the west like I am, this is a giant fuck you to your bank account. Going remote was an immediate $25k raise with better hours and no commute.

wolco 8y ago

The Toronto startup scene is exactly like this. All of the negatives and no upside. My last company didn't allow me to work in my off hours. Paid below market, needy owner wanted to be part of the developer team so he checks in untested code at 3am.. mornings were fixing those commits. It's a culture issue maybe weaker real technical visions with ownership which creates 'medium' driven culture where everyone must be a sterotype. You are better off working for a small business. Entity in most cases should be ignored.

wpietri 8y ago
I really feel for you here. And I think you're right that this comes from deep weakness at the top. The investors want to get in on the Silicon Valley money. The founders channel the Silicon Valley hype. But once you've started pretending you are a genius who will make billions, you can't really switch to the sort of humility that it takes to really get things done well. So the whole company turns into an extension of the sham performance of the founders. E.g., really great people I know are constantly sweating effectiveness. They look at outcomes. They want to be sure they're having the desired impact on customers, on the company, on its people. Plenty of mediocre people focus on metrics, on following the rules, on seeking efficiency. Those aren't intrinsically bad, but can turn that way when the proximate measures don't align with outcomes. But the really scary ones I've met focus on appearance. They want butts in seats, the later the better. They create artificial deadlines and dramatic launches. They look at metrics and find ways to manipulate them with no regard for actual outcomes. If those fools were only harming themselves, I'd be ok with it. But when they harm others, often hundreds of others over the course of their companies, it's truly enraging.

steve_adams_86 8y ago

Remote work was a life changer for me too. The pay is far better, the hours are better (if you keep yourself in check at least), and... Well, I spend a lot more time with my family now, so there's nothing worse to say about it really. In the past I worked for a lot of "performance marketing" companies, but also a few more legitimate companies like Checkfront. Even Checkfront left me feeling deeply unsatisfied despite being an good group of people and decent work. I think there's just something weird going on when companies identify as startups, especially if they're seeking funding. Things deteriorate as they grow, "perks" you mentioned like dogs in the office don't make you feel any better about not seeing your kids after school, and the free coffee tastes like shit anyway. Worst of all though, you're blowing 8-10 hours a day on Canadian pay. If you're in the west like I am, this is a giant fuck you to your bank account. Going remote was an immediate $25k raise with better hours and no commute.