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[Off-topic] - What's with all the "China is evil" articles lately ? Are there any websites (non-chinese) where I can find news about positive advancements in th

by zabana 8y ago

[Off-topic] - What's with all the "China is evil" articles lately ? Are there any websites (non-chinese) where I can find news about positive advancements in the country ? This whole anti-China hype train got me intrigued.

wisdomoftheages 8y ago
Well, in the Xi era China has a) become more of an overtly fascist dictatorship and b) harder for Westerners to make money in, so because of b) there's more incentive to focus on a) Still lots of great stuff happening there, so long as you're not an ethnic minority, religious, LGBT, disabled, an addict, mentally ill, interested in social change, or too poor to afford your own private oxygen and food supply
- zabana 8y ago
  Ethnic and religious minorities are also persecuted all over the US and Europe, it may not be physically (except if you're black in the US) but there's definitely a psychological warfare being declared against these groups through mass media and culture (movies, tv shows, literature ...). I'm not too sure we can give lessons to the Chinese government on this subject.
  - 2bitencryption 8y ago
    > are also persecuted all over the US and Europe Persecuted? I mean, maybe there's social stigma. But I can start a local chapter of "<some_minority> support group" and no one is going to knock on my door and disappear me in the night. I can make a website that's entirely dedicated to criticizing my government, and my internet connection won't be blocked. I can jaywalk across the street without a CCTV camera auto-detecting my face, associating it with my Citizen Social Credit score, and then having it be broadcast on a massive digital billboard to shame me in front of thousands of people. Okay, that started to drift from your original point a bit, my bad.
    - zabana 8y ago
      > But I can start a local chapter of "<some_minority> support group" and no one is going to knock on my door and disappear me in the night. Absolutely true. But you WILL not be given access to venues to host events, and you will most certainly be labeled a "violent activist group" or (if you're from a particular religious group) be accused of "feeding the fire of terrorism". With all the negative consequences that come with that. (This is not science fiction by the way, it happened in a certain west european country not too long ago). So yeah, I'm not sure it's a better deal. I wasn't trying to start a flame war or anything. I just find the hate towards china very curious and very dangerous. What bothers me isn't necessarily the negative criticism it's rather the fact that we're accusing them of things the US and Europe have been guilty of for centuries, but you're right we're drifting away from the main topic of the article. Thanks for replying.
  - _iyig 8y ago
    >I'm not too sure we can give lessons to the Chinese government on this subject. I simply must call BS. Are the Germans not qualified to give lessons on the subject of pervasive surveillance, or the concentration of thousands into camps on the basis of their religion? Are the Bosniaks not qualified to speak of ethnic cleansing, particularly as it applies to a Muslim population? Are the British, whose colonial empire committed many of the same crimes China seems intent on repeating, without any wisdom to offer on the subject? Perhaps the recent density of criticism directed at China, in particular reports on the surveillance state and concentration camps in Xinjiang, are signs that something has gone very wrong.
    - zabana 8y ago
      You speak as if western powers invading, destroying and supporting coup d'etats in foreign nations is a thing of the past. It's not. We are right to bring up the issue of Tibet but the chinese would be more than happy to mention the endless list of countries the west has destroyed/seriously compromised in all parts of the world (central/south america, the middle-east, central asia and now even Africa).
- dang 8y ago
  Please keep nationalistic flamewar off HN. It's what this site is not for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
mrobot 8y ago
I am seeing the same thing. It seems to me an attempt to demonize the country for war or "us vs them" purposes. One major focus that i am seeing possibly overhyped is the Uyghur "camps" thing. The US government and its corporate media are suddenly just so concerned about this and i haven't seen many images or anything to really back it up. Anyway, it seems 9/10 articles that make the news now are just negative, and it seems the frequency of articles is suddenly much higher.
- Moru 8y ago
  I think it's called lead by fear, something politicians/leaders are good at all throught history. Not only in China mind you. The Trump campaign is full of it, just as the nationalist movement in Europe.
- _iyig 8y ago
  The Associated Press, Wall Street Journal, ChinaFile [0], Foreign Policy magazine [1], Deutsche Welle, Amnesty International, and various academics have all done great independent reporting on the subject, if you care to look. Shawn Zhang [2] has done extensive open-source satellite image analysis to locate and identify many suspected camps. If you believe in gravitational waves, the speed of light, and DNA, all things whose existence can only (for most) be directly observed and described by trusted experts, then trust the international press when they say something's going very wrong in Xinjiang. [0] http://www.chinafile.com/reporting-opinion/postcard/million-citizens-occupy-uighur-homes-xinjiang http://www.chinafile.com/reporting-opinion/postcard/million-... [1] https://asiasociety.org/video/tragedy-xinjiang-all-my-uighur-sources-are-gone https://asiasociety.org/video/tragedy-xinjiang-all-my-uighur... [2] https://medium.com/@shawnwzhang https://medium.com/@shawnwzhang
  - mrobot 8y ago
    I just feel like i'm being programmed to be pro regime-change in China. I don't trust Amnesty. Amnesty International co-founder Luis Kutner seems responsible for snitching on Fred Hampton and for his death and US "human rights" organizations seem like they are basically the CIA. Amnesty also published the debunked "Sednaya" report full of lies about Syria. The Xinjiang articles came up all of a sudden, up until just recently i had only ever seen one article about Xinjiang. The new articles seem to suggest Islam is being eradicated or something like that when it's simply not true. Here is another article i've seen that is more pro-china: https://dailytimes.com.pk/238763/how-xi-jinping-tackled-radicalism-in-xinjiang/ https://dailytimes.com.pk/238763/how-xi-jinping-tackled-radi... . It's not a lie that Xinjiang did have a "scourge of extremism".
paraditedc 8y ago
I recently started a blog that might interest you. The focus is on technology industry in China, as well as some tech related political issues. Links are in my profile. I try to be as neutral as possible, but as an overseas Chinese, I can't help but tends to have a slight bias towards Chinese government.
- zabana 8y ago
  Thanks for the links. These are very interesting articles. It's refreshing to be exposed to a completely new perspective.
duchenne 8y ago
I do not have a specific website in mind. But, there are some news about some cool Chinese accomplishments: they will send a robot on the far side of the Moon soon; they are leading in electricle vehicules and public transport, photovoltaic pannels, electonic payments. They have some promising research in Thorium-based plants.
- zabana 8y ago
  Thanks this is the kind of stuff I want to read about. Obviously no country is perfect and the chinese govt have their flaws without a doubt, but politics aside It's still a fascinating country with an immense culture.
  - kibibu 8y ago
    I'm in China right now. WeChat is bloody amazing.
GuardianCaveman 8y ago
Positive advancements? From whose perspective? I am sure the Chinese government and many Chinese views these articles positively. The article is pretty matter of fact just listing things that are banned and why. They see the games as immoral and are taking action, now whether or not that’s the real reason who knows. I mean China state sponsors corporate espionage and supports copyright infringement like no other country in the world. It also has essentially a second internet because it so heavily censors its own. It also locks up millions of a cultural group into concentration camps. I just don’t see a lot of positive advancements in general and I’ve been there as well. This isn’t just from the news. Sometimes things are reported overwhelmingly negative because they are, in fact, overwhelmingly negative. It’s not always a bias it’s just reality.
factsaresacred 8y ago
> What's with all the "China is evil" articles lately ? Perhaps people are realizing that China: - is an ever increasingly authoritarian surveillance state with few checks and balances - lies to its people, censors truths and has weaponised nationalism to externalize its faults - benefits from the world order yet does not play by the rules (intellectual property, market access) - locks up hundreds of thousands of its own people for forced 'reeducation' - has begun annexing the South China sea and eroding Hong Kong's democratic institutions The West made China rich with few preconditions (and much to their own selfish benefit) and are now facing a potential hegemonic power that has zero interest in sustaining a democratic or liberal order. Say what you will about democracy, it tends to temper belligerence and prevent the type of insanity bestowed upon us by Mao, Stalin and Hitler. The Chinese Communist Party simply can not, and should not, be trusted. > Are there any websites (non-chinese) where I can find news about positive advancements in the country ? Where have you been? The last decade has been a pro-China 'Asian Century' circle-jerk across almost all the media.
- dang 8y ago
  Please keep nationalistic flamewar off HN. It's what this site is not for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
GlennS 8y ago
In my opinion, the "China is evil" articles were triggered by the abolition of term limits for the party chairman. It's changed the mood from "they are acting reasonably effetively in their national interest" to "this guy could do anything".

by zabana 8y ago

wisdomoftheages 8y ago

Well, in the Xi era China has a) become more of an overtly fascist dictatorship and b) harder for Westerners to make money in, so because of b) there's more incentive to focus on a) Still lots of great stuff happening there, so long as you're not an ethnic minority, religious, LGBT, disabled, an addict, mentally ill, interested in social change, or too poor to afford your own private oxygen and food supply

zabana 8y ago
Ethnic and religious minorities are also persecuted all over the US and Europe, it may not be physically (except if you're black in the US) but there's definitely a psychological warfare being declared against these groups through mass media and culture (movies, tv shows, literature ...). I'm not too sure we can give lessons to the Chinese government on this subject.
- 2bitencryption 8y ago
  > are also persecuted all over the US and Europe Persecuted? I mean, maybe there's social stigma. But I can start a local chapter of "<some_minority> support group" and no one is going to knock on my door and disappear me in the night. I can make a website that's entirely dedicated to criticizing my government, and my internet connection won't be blocked. I can jaywalk across the street without a CCTV camera auto-detecting my face, associating it with my Citizen Social Credit score, and then having it be broadcast on a massive digital billboard to shame me in front of thousands of people. Okay, that started to drift from your original point a bit, my bad.
  - zabana 8y ago
    > But I can start a local chapter of "<some_minority> support group" and no one is going to knock on my door and disappear me in the night. Absolutely true. But you WILL not be given access to venues to host events, and you will most certainly be labeled a "violent activist group" or (if you're from a particular religious group) be accused of "feeding the fire of terrorism". With all the negative consequences that come with that. (This is not science fiction by the way, it happened in a certain west european country not too long ago). So yeah, I'm not sure it's a better deal. I wasn't trying to start a flame war or anything. I just find the hate towards china very curious and very dangerous. What bothers me isn't necessarily the negative criticism it's rather the fact that we're accusing them of things the US and Europe have been guilty of for centuries, but you're right we're drifting away from the main topic of the article. Thanks for replying.
- _iyig 8y ago
  >I'm not too sure we can give lessons to the Chinese government on this subject. I simply must call BS. Are the Germans not qualified to give lessons on the subject of pervasive surveillance, or the concentration of thousands into camps on the basis of their religion? Are the Bosniaks not qualified to speak of ethnic cleansing, particularly as it applies to a Muslim population? Are the British, whose colonial empire committed many of the same crimes China seems intent on repeating, without any wisdom to offer on the subject? Perhaps the recent density of criticism directed at China, in particular reports on the surveillance state and concentration camps in Xinjiang, are signs that something has gone very wrong.
  - zabana 8y ago
    You speak as if western powers invading, destroying and supporting coup d'etats in foreign nations is a thing of the past. It's not. We are right to bring up the issue of Tibet but the chinese would be more than happy to mention the endless list of countries the west has destroyed/seriously compromised in all parts of the world (central/south america, the middle-east, central asia and now even Africa).
dang 8y ago
Please keep nationalistic flamewar off HN. It's what this site is not for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

mrobot 8y ago

I am seeing the same thing. It seems to me an attempt to demonize the country for war or "us vs them" purposes. One major focus that i am seeing possibly overhyped is the Uyghur "camps" thing. The US government and its corporate media are suddenly just so concerned about this and i haven't seen many images or anything to really back it up. Anyway, it seems 9/10 articles that make the news now are just negative, and it seems the frequency of articles is suddenly much higher.

Moru 8y ago
I think it's called lead by fear, something politicians/leaders are good at all throught history. Not only in China mind you. The Trump campaign is full of it, just as the nationalist movement in Europe.
_iyig 8y ago
The Associated Press, Wall Street Journal, ChinaFile [0], Foreign Policy magazine [1], Deutsche Welle, Amnesty International, and various academics have all done great independent reporting on the subject, if you care to look. Shawn Zhang [2] has done extensive open-source satellite image analysis to locate and identify many suspected camps. If you believe in gravitational waves, the speed of light, and DNA, all things whose existence can only (for most) be directly observed and described by trusted experts, then trust the international press when they say something's going very wrong in Xinjiang. [0] http://www.chinafile.com/reporting-opinion/postcard/million-citizens-occupy-uighur-homes-xinjiang http://www.chinafile.com/reporting-opinion/postcard/million-... [1] https://asiasociety.org/video/tragedy-xinjiang-all-my-uighur-sources-are-gone https://asiasociety.org/video/tragedy-xinjiang-all-my-uighur... [2] https://medium.com/@shawnwzhang https://medium.com/@shawnwzhang
- mrobot 8y ago
  I just feel like i'm being programmed to be pro regime-change in China. I don't trust Amnesty. Amnesty International co-founder Luis Kutner seems responsible for snitching on Fred Hampton and for his death and US "human rights" organizations seem like they are basically the CIA. Amnesty also published the debunked "Sednaya" report full of lies about Syria. The Xinjiang articles came up all of a sudden, up until just recently i had only ever seen one article about Xinjiang. The new articles seem to suggest Islam is being eradicated or something like that when it's simply not true. Here is another article i've seen that is more pro-china: https://dailytimes.com.pk/238763/how-xi-jinping-tackled-radicalism-in-xinjiang/ https://dailytimes.com.pk/238763/how-xi-jinping-tackled-radi... . It's not a lie that Xinjiang did have a "scourge of extremism".

paraditedc 8y ago

I recently started a blog that might interest you. The focus is on technology industry in China, as well as some tech related political issues. Links are in my profile. I try to be as neutral as possible, but as an overseas Chinese, I can't help but tends to have a slight bias towards Chinese government.

zabana 8y ago
Thanks for the links. These are very interesting articles. It's refreshing to be exposed to a completely new perspective.

duchenne 8y ago

I do not have a specific website in mind. But, there are some news about some cool Chinese accomplishments: they will send a robot on the far side of the Moon soon; they are leading in electricle vehicules and public transport, photovoltaic pannels, electonic payments. They have some promising research in Thorium-based plants.

zabana 8y ago
Thanks this is the kind of stuff I want to read about. Obviously no country is perfect and the chinese govt have their flaws without a doubt, but politics aside It's still a fascinating country with an immense culture.
- kibibu 8y ago
  I'm in China right now. WeChat is bloody amazing.

GuardianCaveman 8y ago

Positive advancements? From whose perspective? I am sure the Chinese government and many Chinese views these articles positively. The article is pretty matter of fact just listing things that are banned and why. They see the games as immoral and are taking action, now whether or not that’s the real reason who knows. I mean China state sponsors corporate espionage and supports copyright infringement like no other country in the world. It also has essentially a second internet because it so heavily censors its own. It also locks up millions of a cultural group into concentration camps. I just don’t see a lot of positive advancements in general and I’ve been there as well. This isn’t just from the news. Sometimes things are reported overwhelmingly negative because they are, in fact, overwhelmingly negative. It’s not always a bias it’s just reality.

factsaresacred 8y ago

> What's with all the "China is evil" articles lately ? Perhaps people are realizing that China: - is an ever increasingly authoritarian surveillance state with few checks and balances - lies to its people, censors truths and has weaponised nationalism to externalize its faults - benefits from the world order yet does not play by the rules (intellectual property, market access) - locks up hundreds of thousands of its own people for forced 'reeducation' - has begun annexing the South China sea and eroding Hong Kong's democratic institutions The West made China rich with few preconditions (and much to their own selfish benefit) and are now facing a potential hegemonic power that has zero interest in sustaining a democratic or liberal order. Say what you will about democracy, it tends to temper belligerence and prevent the type of insanity bestowed upon us by Mao, Stalin and Hitler. The Chinese Communist Party simply can not, and should not, be trusted. > Are there any websites (non-chinese) where I can find news about positive advancements in the country ? Where have you been? The last decade has been a pro-China 'Asian Century' circle-jerk across almost all the media.

dang 8y ago
Please keep nationalistic flamewar off HN. It's what this site is not for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

GlennS 8y ago

In my opinion, the "China is evil" articles were triggered by the abolition of term limits for the party chairman. It's changed the mood from "they are acting reasonably effetively in their national interest" to "this guy could do anything".