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Rumor: China's ethics board reviews 20 popular online games, bans 9

51 points by throwaway2048 8y ago

realusername 8y ago
It's probably all bullshit reasons as usual with the CCCP to let their local market to compete with local stuff. > Fortnite by Epic Games/Tencent (Blood and gore, vulgar content.) This has to be the most ridiculous reason, Fortnite banned for blood and gore? It's just a cartoon game.
- throwaway2048 8y ago
  Should be noted Tencent is a Chinese company, several of their games appear on this list.
  - realusername 8y ago
    I'm pretty sure they will give Tencent's games a way to comply by changing some petty stuff and keep the others banned.
    - chillacy 8y ago
      As someone else mentioned, Fortnite is tencents game, they’re a 40% stakeholder in epic and this is a huge upset for them. So maybe this is like you said temporary.
  - toine_toine 8y ago
    Including the mobile version of PUBG (it was created completely in-house by Tencent).
    - dole 8y ago
      There's actually multiple branches of PUBGMobile, a Chinese version (called TIMI) and the rest of the world (Lightspeed/Quantum.) Both were begun and developed in parallel, are pretty close in gameplay and mechanics but each has their nuances. The TIMI version notably has most of the premium clothing and items for free since lootbox systems are considered gambling in China. Also, green blood.
- duchenne 8y ago
  It is probably a mistranslation, they obviously mean that the "battle royale" theme is too violent: a bunch of strangers are gathered and have to kill each other until the last one. Personally, I enjoy that kind of games, but the fact that they display smiling cartoon characters killing each others can make some people even more uncomfortable. On steam, a game where you play a school shooter was recently banned. Can cartoon graphics and absence of blood make a school shooter acceptable?
  - tokyodude 8y ago
    So rename it "paint" tag, color all explosions and blood in green and blue. Claim it's just 100 tag you're out.
  - realusername 8y ago
    You could argue about that but what about blood and gore? There's not even any blood in the game.
    - danbruc 8y ago
      Maybe it is not meant to be taken too literally and just means violence, may even be an artifact of the translation.
  - yorwba 8y ago
    The Chinese source says 追求血腥, which I'd translate poetically as "pursue the smell of blood". So there wouldn't have to be any blood visible on screen, as long as you can "smell"/imagine it. Essentially "overly violent", as you guessed. This is really targeted at China's domestic game industry and various tendencies the Party disapproves of because they believe those games to "corrupt the youth" or something like that. The leadership is full of very conservative people for whom a chainmail bikini verges on pornography.
- majani 8y ago
  Letting the local market compete is "bullshit" now? I'm guessing China should be "fair" and let US gaming companies take billions out of their economy without hiring a single Chinese person or paying a cent in Chinese taxes?
  - wisdomoftheages 8y ago
    “Letting the local market compete” is not among the listed reasons, so if that were the true reason the listed reasons would indeed be “bullshit”
  - RaleyField 8y ago
    > Letting the local market compete is "bullshit" now? It was bullshit before too. This is nothing but another form of candlemaker's petition.[1] Why is welfare of corporations more important than free choice of consumers? Why not let consumers voluntarily decide where they want to take their business? [1] https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/08/candle-makers-petition.asp https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/08/candle-makers-pe...
sbhn 8y ago
In UK they use the PEGI rating system for games that influences the design process. They also have OFCOM, ICO, HMRC and even more. Chinese companies cant sell games in the UK without complying with all the laws. Sounds like another case of dictator knows what dictator does. Perhaps china is retaliating for canada locking up a huawei executive for violating US sanctions on iran, or maybe china is exercising its import customs rights just like the heavy handed customs enforcment as demonstrated by the US and the UK
- johneth 8y ago
  That’s a completely pointless observation. PEGI is a pan-European (note: not solely UK - it’s an industry body) rating system. It doesn’t censor content or creativity, it just recommends that younger people can’t buy extreme content. It’s not active censorship. Ofcom doesn’t apply to games - it’s TV, radio, phones, communications regulator (Office of Communications). The ICO regulates data protection and privacy. In what way is this related to game and creativity censorship? HMRC is tax collection. The only way this can affect game design is via tax breaks - these tax breaks are not predicated on specific creative requirements. So - how is the UK in any way similar to China in terms of game censorship?
  - sbhn 8y ago
    Perhaps you answered your own question. Uk has many cards up its sleeve to censor china for whatever reason it needs.
    - johneth 8y ago
      I just pointed out how the UK does not have cards up it’s sleeve. But as you seem to know something I don’t, please enlighten me - any examples of the UK government actually censoring games?
      - sbhn 8y ago
        Games are media. Even the app store has censorship requirements that you must follow. You can lobby to your government to introduce more stringent cencorship laws on Chinese exports to your country if you want, because, well, its just not fair that chinese has inport laws, just like many other countries.
throwaway2048 8y ago
Its likely somewhat obvious but "Harmonizing" and "inharmonious" are Chinese Government euphemisms for censorship and banned political speech.
throwawaysea 8y ago
If the post is accurate as a translation/source, I doubt those stated reasons are the true motivations, since citing 'blood and gore' for Fortnite seems absurd. I speculate it is more likely a way to carefully manipulate the competitive landscape for a highly-lucrative industry (gaming), so as to favor local companies (and yes, I see Tencent is impacted). This should really be brought up in the on-going trade negotiations.
- mobilemidget 8y ago
  Blood and gore used to be enough reason in Germany to get a game altered?
  - tqkxzugoaupvwqr 8y ago
    The point was that there is no blood and gore in Fortnite, therefore the cited reason can’t be valid, and the true motivation must be something else.
zabana 8y ago
[Off-topic] - What's with all the "China is evil" articles lately ? Are there any websites (non-chinese) where I can find news about positive advancements in the country ? This whole anti-China hype train got me intrigued.
- wisdomoftheages 8y ago
  Well, in the Xi era China has a) become more of an overtly fascist dictatorship and b) harder for Westerners to make money in, so because of b) there's more incentive to focus on a) Still lots of great stuff happening there, so long as you're not an ethnic minority, religious, LGBT, disabled, an addict, mentally ill, interested in social change, or too poor to afford your own private oxygen and food supply
  - zabana 8y ago
    Ethnic and religious minorities are also persecuted all over the US and Europe, it may not be physically (except if you're black in the US) but there's definitely a psychological warfare being declared against these groups through mass media and culture (movies, tv shows, literature ...). I'm not too sure we can give lessons to the Chinese government on this subject.
    - 2bitencryption 8y ago
      > are also persecuted all over the US and Europe Persecuted? I mean, maybe there's social stigma. But I can start a local chapter of "<some_minority> support group" and no one is going to knock on my door and disappear me in the night. I can make a website that's entirely dedicated to criticizing my government, and my internet connection won't be blocked. I can jaywalk across the street without a CCTV camera auto-detecting my face, associating it with my Citizen Social Credit score, and then having it be broadcast on a massive digital billboard to shame me in front of thousands of people. Okay, that started to drift from your original point a bit, my bad.
      - zabana 8y ago
throwaway2048 8y ago
Interesting in light of the leaked CIA profile on Xi Jingping (Current leader of the Chinese communist party) https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09BEIJING3128_a.html https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09BEIJING3128_a.html A choice quote: Xi knows how very corrupt China is and is repulsed by the all-encompassing commercialization of Chinese society, with its attendant nouveau riche, official corruption, loss of values, dignity, and self-respect, and such "moral evils" as drugs and prostitution, the professor stated. The professor speculated that if Xi were to become the Party General Secretary, he would likely aggressively attempt to address these evils, perhaps at the expense of the new moneyed class.
- craigsmansion 8y ago
  The road to hell... The reason hardly anyone knows the names of important party members after Deng Xiaoping and before Xi Jingping is that it was policy. Deng recognised the dangers of creating a cult of personality, such as he had witnessed (and suffered) under Mao. Xi is quickly reversing this, presenting his person and ideas as central tenets of the party. It's a direction that should cause concern, since I think it's mainly Deng's policies that laid the groundwork for China's rise and current status on the world stage.
point78 8y ago
What is the solution to China either constantly banning our products and then cloning them or counterfeiting what's not banned? We're losing billions.
- kkarakk 8y ago
  regime change by cutting off their benefits and forcing unrest seems to be the only way. waaaay too many countries are having their industries undercut by cheap chinese imports that basically rip off products. the only good thing trump has done is the china tariffs
  - fsloth 8y ago
    "regime change by cutting off their benefits and forcing unrest seems to be the only way" You do realize the number of countries US has destabilized over the years is not an insignificant one? And that the results have seldom been satisfactory to anyone but the particular companies that benefitted from the escapade? What you are saying amounts to that the right of american companies to make a profit is more important than the political sovereignty, happiness and wellness of peoples living in countries which threat these profits.
    - kkarakk 8y ago
      china threatens more than america, india,pakistan, most of the african countries with a chinese presence are all being affected and destabilized coz of china's policies and ambitions. it can easily become the cause of another world war,better their govt become destabilized than the whole world
- majani 8y ago
  Their country, their rules. The US has no God given right to world domination with their products.
  - votepaunchy 8y ago
    Just as long as we're on the same page here when the US debt spirals out of control forcing a default on China-owned T-bonds.
deltron3030 8y ago
Keeps too many from studying or working I guess..
toine_toine 8y ago
https://i.imgur.com/qnSbTxM.jpg https://i.imgur.com/qnSbTxM.jpg rows 1-12: 责令改正 "changes ordered". rows 13-20: 暂不批准或者退市 "temporarily not approved or leave market".
niyaven 8y ago
The linked post has been updated and now says it's an unconfirmed rumor ; I think it would be better to add this information in the title.
- dang 8y ago
  Added.
verroq 8y ago
It is great to see a rumour posted on NGA, then badly translated and posted onto reddit and now reposted on some other messageboard with some editorialising and now reported as fact on HN.
- paraditedc 8y ago
  Interesting. I forgot NGA as one of the influential online forums in China when I wrote about that topic. For those who don't know, NGA was originally a forum about World of Warcraft (the online game). Then it got popular and became more generic , similar to the "wow" subforum on Baidu Tieba (Chinese equivalent of reddit, but earlier than reddit).
bliblah 8y ago
I noticed that all these games are the usual heavy hitters with one notable exception; Dota 2. Very curious because dota 2 is definitely violent and has some scantily clad women (not as far as LoL but I don't think censors really care about differences). The reason this is curious is because China is Dota's largest audience and Valve has announced that TI9 will be held in Shanghai. Important to note that this is a huge tournament with the largest prize pool in all of esports (T8 was $25.5 Million). Recently Valve banned a player from participating in a tournament in China for making racist remarks towards the Chinese in a public match and many believe that this is Valve bending to Chinese interests. [1] Valve has also recently announced that they will be releasing Steam China after years of working with Perfect World as a middle man[2] . Valve has censored heroes and abilities to appease Chinese Censors and has been able to more or less keep it only on the Chinese Client. [3] (Rip Skeleton King) Interesting times ahead with more and more games and films entering the Chinese market. [1]https://www.foxsportsasia.com/esports/dota2/990684/valve-issues-statement-officially-bans-kuku-from-attending-chongqing-major/ https://www.foxsportsasia.com/esports/dota2/990684/valve-iss... [2]https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/11/17451484/steam-china-announced-valve-perfect-world https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/11/17451484/steam-china-anno... [3]https://dota2.gamepedia.com/Low_Violence https://dota2.gamepedia.com/Low_Violence
SilverSlash 8y ago
The irony would've been so amusing had they completely banned Diablo. Considering how Blizzard made the new diablo mobile game mostly because of the Chinese market.

51 points by throwaway2048 8y ago

It's probably all bullshit reasons as usual with the CCCP to let their local market to compete with local stuff. > Fortnite by Epic Games/Tencent (Blood and gore, vulgar content.) This has to be the most ridiculous reason, Fortnite banned for blood and gore? It's just a cartoon game.

throwaway2048 8y ago
Should be noted Tencent is a Chinese company, several of their games appear on this list.
- realusername 8y ago
  I'm pretty sure they will give Tencent's games a way to comply by changing some petty stuff and keep the others banned.
  - chillacy 8y ago
    As someone else mentioned, Fortnite is tencents game, they’re a 40% stakeholder in epic and this is a huge upset for them. So maybe this is like you said temporary.
- toine_toine 8y ago
  Including the mobile version of PUBG (it was created completely in-house by Tencent).
  - dole 8y ago
    There's actually multiple branches of PUBGMobile, a Chinese version (called TIMI) and the rest of the world (Lightspeed/Quantum.) Both were begun and developed in parallel, are pretty close in gameplay and mechanics but each has their nuances. The TIMI version notably has most of the premium clothing and items for free since lootbox systems are considered gambling in China. Also, green blood.
duchenne 8y ago
It is probably a mistranslation, they obviously mean that the "battle royale" theme is too violent: a bunch of strangers are gathered and have to kill each other until the last one. Personally, I enjoy that kind of games, but the fact that they display smiling cartoon characters killing each others can make some people even more uncomfortable. On steam, a game where you play a school shooter was recently banned. Can cartoon graphics and absence of blood make a school shooter acceptable?
- tokyodude 8y ago
  So rename it "paint" tag, color all explosions and blood in green and blue. Claim it's just 100 tag you're out.
- realusername 8y ago
  You could argue about that but what about blood and gore? There's not even any blood in the game.
  - danbruc 8y ago
    Maybe it is not meant to be taken too literally and just means violence, may even be an artifact of the translation.
- yorwba 8y ago
  The Chinese source says 追求血腥, which I'd translate poetically as "pursue the smell of blood". So there wouldn't have to be any blood visible on screen, as long as you can "smell"/imagine it. Essentially "overly violent", as you guessed. This is really targeted at China's domestic game industry and various tendencies the Party disapproves of because they believe those games to "corrupt the youth" or something like that. The leadership is full of very conservative people for whom a chainmail bikini verges on pornography.
majani 8y ago
Letting the local market compete is "bullshit" now? I'm guessing China should be "fair" and let US gaming companies take billions out of their economy without hiring a single Chinese person or paying a cent in Chinese taxes?
- wisdomoftheages 8y ago
  “Letting the local market compete” is not among the listed reasons, so if that were the true reason the listed reasons would indeed be “bullshit”
- RaleyField 8y ago
  > Letting the local market compete is "bullshit" now? It was bullshit before too. This is nothing but another form of candlemaker's petition.[1] Why is welfare of corporations more important than free choice of consumers? Why not let consumers voluntarily decide where they want to take their business? [1] https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/08/candle-makers-petition.asp https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/08/candle-makers-pe...

sbhn 8y ago

In UK they use the PEGI rating system for games that influences the design process. They also have OFCOM, ICO, HMRC and even more. Chinese companies cant sell games in the UK without complying with all the laws. Sounds like another case of dictator knows what dictator does. Perhaps china is retaliating for canada locking up a huawei executive for violating US sanctions on iran, or maybe china is exercising its import customs rights just like the heavy handed customs enforcment as demonstrated by the US and the UK

johneth 8y ago
That’s a completely pointless observation. PEGI is a pan-European (note: not solely UK - it’s an industry body) rating system. It doesn’t censor content or creativity, it just recommends that younger people can’t buy extreme content. It’s not active censorship. Ofcom doesn’t apply to games - it’s TV, radio, phones, communications regulator (Office of Communications). The ICO regulates data protection and privacy. In what way is this related to game and creativity censorship? HMRC is tax collection. The only way this can affect game design is via tax breaks - these tax breaks are not predicated on specific creative requirements. So - how is the UK in any way similar to China in terms of game censorship?
- sbhn 8y ago
  Perhaps you answered your own question. Uk has many cards up its sleeve to censor china for whatever reason it needs.
  - johneth 8y ago
    I just pointed out how the UK does not have cards up it’s sleeve. But as you seem to know something I don’t, please enlighten me - any examples of the UK government actually censoring games?
    - sbhn 8y ago
      Games are media. Even the app store has censorship requirements that you must follow. You can lobby to your government to introduce more stringent cencorship laws on Chinese exports to your country if you want, because, well, its just not fair that chinese has inport laws, just like many other countries.

throwaway2048 8y ago

Its likely somewhat obvious but "Harmonizing" and "inharmonious" are Chinese Government euphemisms for censorship and banned political speech.

throwawaysea 8y ago

If the post is accurate as a translation/source, I doubt those stated reasons are the true motivations, since citing 'blood and gore' for Fortnite seems absurd. I speculate it is more likely a way to carefully manipulate the competitive landscape for a highly-lucrative industry (gaming), so as to favor local companies (and yes, I see Tencent is impacted). This should really be brought up in the on-going trade negotiations.

mobilemidget 8y ago
Blood and gore used to be enough reason in Germany to get a game altered?
- tqkxzugoaupvwqr 8y ago
  The point was that there is no blood and gore in Fortnite, therefore the cited reason can’t be valid, and the true motivation must be something else.

zabana 8y ago

[Off-topic] - What's with all the "China is evil" articles lately ? Are there any websites (non-chinese) where I can find news about positive advancements in the country ? This whole anti-China hype train got me intrigued.

wisdomoftheages 8y ago
Well, in the Xi era China has a) become more of an overtly fascist dictatorship and b) harder for Westerners to make money in, so because of b) there's more incentive to focus on a) Still lots of great stuff happening there, so long as you're not an ethnic minority, religious, LGBT, disabled, an addict, mentally ill, interested in social change, or too poor to afford your own private oxygen and food supply
- zabana 8y ago
  Ethnic and religious minorities are also persecuted all over the US and Europe, it may not be physically (except if you're black in the US) but there's definitely a psychological warfare being declared against these groups through mass media and culture (movies, tv shows, literature ...). I'm not too sure we can give lessons to the Chinese government on this subject.
  - 2bitencryption 8y ago
    > are also persecuted all over the US and Europe Persecuted? I mean, maybe there's social stigma. But I can start a local chapter of "<some_minority> support group" and no one is going to knock on my door and disappear me in the night. I can make a website that's entirely dedicated to criticizing my government, and my internet connection won't be blocked. I can jaywalk across the street without a CCTV camera auto-detecting my face, associating it with my Citizen Social Credit score, and then having it be broadcast on a massive digital billboard to shame me in front of thousands of people. Okay, that started to drift from your original point a bit, my bad.
    - zabana 8y ago

throwaway2048 8y ago

Interesting in light of the leaked CIA profile on Xi Jingping (Current leader of the Chinese communist party) https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09BEIJING3128_a.html https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09BEIJING3128_a.html A choice quote: Xi knows how very corrupt China is and is repulsed by the all-encompassing commercialization of Chinese society, with its attendant nouveau riche, official corruption, loss of values, dignity, and self-respect, and such "moral evils" as drugs and prostitution, the professor stated. The professor speculated that if Xi were to become the Party General Secretary, he would likely aggressively attempt to address these evils, perhaps at the expense of the new moneyed class.

craigsmansion 8y ago
The road to hell... The reason hardly anyone knows the names of important party members after Deng Xiaoping and before Xi Jingping is that it was policy. Deng recognised the dangers of creating a cult of personality, such as he had witnessed (and suffered) under Mao. Xi is quickly reversing this, presenting his person and ideas as central tenets of the party. It's a direction that should cause concern, since I think it's mainly Deng's policies that laid the groundwork for China's rise and current status on the world stage.

point78 8y ago

What is the solution to China either constantly banning our products and then cloning them or counterfeiting what's not banned? We're losing billions.

kkarakk 8y ago
regime change by cutting off their benefits and forcing unrest seems to be the only way. waaaay too many countries are having their industries undercut by cheap chinese imports that basically rip off products. the only good thing trump has done is the china tariffs
- fsloth 8y ago
  "regime change by cutting off their benefits and forcing unrest seems to be the only way" You do realize the number of countries US has destabilized over the years is not an insignificant one? And that the results have seldom been satisfactory to anyone but the particular companies that benefitted from the escapade? What you are saying amounts to that the right of american companies to make a profit is more important than the political sovereignty, happiness and wellness of peoples living in countries which threat these profits.
  - kkarakk 8y ago
    china threatens more than america, india,pakistan, most of the african countries with a chinese presence are all being affected and destabilized coz of china's policies and ambitions. it can easily become the cause of another world war,better their govt become destabilized than the whole world
majani 8y ago
Their country, their rules. The US has no God given right to world domination with their products.
- votepaunchy 8y ago
  Just as long as we're on the same page here when the US debt spirals out of control forcing a default on China-owned T-bonds.

deltron3030 8y ago

Keeps too many from studying or working I guess..

toine_toine 8y ago

https://i.imgur.com/qnSbTxM.jpg https://i.imgur.com/qnSbTxM.jpg rows 1-12: 责令改正 "changes ordered". rows 13-20: 暂不批准或者退市 "temporarily not approved or leave market".

niyaven 8y ago

The linked post has been updated and now says it's an unconfirmed rumor ; I think it would be better to add this information in the title.

dang 8y ago
Added.

verroq 8y ago

It is great to see a rumour posted on NGA, then badly translated and posted onto reddit and now reposted on some other messageboard with some editorialising and now reported as fact on HN.

paraditedc 8y ago
Interesting. I forgot NGA as one of the influential online forums in China when I wrote about that topic. For those who don't know, NGA was originally a forum about World of Warcraft (the online game). Then it got popular and became more generic , similar to the "wow" subforum on Baidu Tieba (Chinese equivalent of reddit, but earlier than reddit).

bliblah 8y ago

I noticed that all these games are the usual heavy hitters with one notable exception; Dota 2. Very curious because dota 2 is definitely violent and has some scantily clad women (not as far as LoL but I don't think censors really care about differences). The reason this is curious is because China is Dota's largest audience and Valve has announced that TI9 will be held in Shanghai. Important to note that this is a huge tournament with the largest prize pool in all of esports (T8 was $25.5 Million). Recently Valve banned a player from participating in a tournament in China for making racist remarks towards the Chinese in a public match and many believe that this is Valve bending to Chinese interests. [1] Valve has also recently announced that they will be releasing Steam China after years of working with Perfect World as a middle man[2] . Valve has censored heroes and abilities to appease Chinese Censors and has been able to more or less keep it only on the Chinese Client. [3] (Rip Skeleton King) Interesting times ahead with more and more games and films entering the Chinese market. [1]https://www.foxsportsasia.com/esports/dota2/990684/valve-issues-statement-officially-bans-kuku-from-attending-chongqing-major/ https://www.foxsportsasia.com/esports/dota2/990684/valve-iss... [2]https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/11/17451484/steam-china-announced-valve-perfect-world https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/11/17451484/steam-china-anno... [3]https://dota2.gamepedia.com/Low_Violence https://dota2.gamepedia.com/Low_Violence

SilverSlash 8y ago

The irony would've been so amusing had they completely banned Diablo. Considering how Blizzard made the new diablo mobile game mostly because of the Chinese market.