4 ms·

I have fond memories of his book and his writings. I was rather stunned that somebody so intelligent would be so willingly not so in other areas. No interest at

I have fond memories of his book and his writings. I was rather stunned that somebody so intelligent would be so willingly not so in other areas. No interest attacking him for it, but just, "Wow. really?" We all have our quirks, don't we.

TeMPOraL 8y ago
> I was rather stunned that somebody so intelligent would be so willingly not so in other areas. Judging by the Wikipedia article, he's Christian. Which means creationism is a part of his belief systems. As for climate skepticism, hard to say, though I am curious about one thing. Wikipedia mentions him doing a lot of atmospheric research, hand has some pretty charts near the end - charts that, to my layman's opinion, should show a rising trend (due to correlation between water vapour and carbon dioxide in the atmosphere), not a steady one. Could anyone comment on that and their relevance?
- pjc50 8y ago
  > Which means creationism is a part of his belief systems This is only true for some doctrinal subsets of Christianity, and it's rare in European christian communities. Far weirder to find someone who's innovated in atmospheric research - a great little paper on how to determine atmospheric water content with a $10 IR thermometer - who doesn't believe in climate change. (https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/2011BAMS3215.1 https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/2011BAMS3215.1 if you want the paper)
peterwwillis 8y ago
I don't have a dog in this fight, but nothing I've read by him shows any indication of being willfully unintelligent.
- pstuart 8y ago
  Believing in Creationism is being willfully unintelligent. One can be a Christian and not be a creationist -- that's a choice.
  - peterwwillis 8y ago
    You're saying "willfully unintelligent" as if he's explicitly trying not to be intelligent. But that's the opposite of what's going on. He's examined the science and he sees problems with it. He's heard the counter-arguments, and he isn't convinced, because of what he sees as a lack of evidence. This is the same kind of fundamental misunderstanding that separates (for example) a white supremacist from one who is not. The general idea is that the former is refusing to reason, examine, or use logic. But if you talk to a white supremacist or neo-Nazi at length, you find that they have nuanced, complex, logical explanations for their beliefs. They may be wildly inaccurate, but that isn't to say they didn't put thought into it. Not only that, but their positions are bolstered by the fact that there's basically no way to completely disprove them, because it would require observing nature over millennia, or having records we just don't have. Calling them willfully unintelligent not only misunderstands their reasoning, but it questions their motives. It's not just a false observation, it's an accusation. This moves the conversation from "I don't think you're right" to "you're a bad person". And I think that's at the core of how political and ideological discourse is so rotten today.
    - pstuart 8y ago
      Sigh. You went to effort to make your case but I don't buy it (and resent your conclusion of effectively blaming me for the failure of discourse today). > You're saying "willfully unintelligent" as if he's explicitly trying not to be intelligent No, I did not. He has access to the science and he also has a religious tract. He chooses to treat that religious tract as an inerrant literal depiction of the creation of the world. Those are competing thoughts and "willfully" means that he made a choice. And "willfully" is kind of tricky here, because it would not surprise me if he was raised in a Christian household that effectively brainwashed him into these beliefs. >And I think that's at the core of how political and ideological discourse is so rotten today. And I disagree. I think a huge part of the problem is religious fundamentalism and a rejection of science. Edit: oh, and neo-nazis and white supremacist are bad people m'kay?
      - peterwwillis 8y ago

TeMPOraL 8y ago

> I was rather stunned that somebody so intelligent would be so willingly not so in other areas. Judging by the Wikipedia article, he's Christian. Which means creationism is a part of his belief systems. As for climate skepticism, hard to say, though I am curious about one thing. Wikipedia mentions him doing a lot of atmospheric research, hand has some pretty charts near the end - charts that, to my layman's opinion, should show a rising trend (due to correlation between water vapour and carbon dioxide in the atmosphere), not a steady one. Could anyone comment on that and their relevance?

pjc50 8y ago
> Which means creationism is a part of his belief systems This is only true for some doctrinal subsets of Christianity, and it's rare in European christian communities. Far weirder to find someone who's innovated in atmospheric research - a great little paper on how to determine atmospheric water content with a $10 IR thermometer - who doesn't believe in climate change. (https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/2011BAMS3215.1 https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/2011BAMS3215.1 if you want the paper)

peterwwillis 8y ago

I don't have a dog in this fight, but nothing I've read by him shows any indication of being willfully unintelligent.

pstuart 8y ago
Believing in Creationism is being willfully unintelligent. One can be a Christian and not be a creationist -- that's a choice.
- peterwwillis 8y ago
  You're saying "willfully unintelligent" as if he's explicitly trying not to be intelligent. But that's the opposite of what's going on. He's examined the science and he sees problems with it. He's heard the counter-arguments, and he isn't convinced, because of what he sees as a lack of evidence. This is the same kind of fundamental misunderstanding that separates (for example) a white supremacist from one who is not. The general idea is that the former is refusing to reason, examine, or use logic. But if you talk to a white supremacist or neo-Nazi at length, you find that they have nuanced, complex, logical explanations for their beliefs. They may be wildly inaccurate, but that isn't to say they didn't put thought into it. Not only that, but their positions are bolstered by the fact that there's basically no way to completely disprove them, because it would require observing nature over millennia, or having records we just don't have. Calling them willfully unintelligent not only misunderstands their reasoning, but it questions their motives. It's not just a false observation, it's an accusation. This moves the conversation from "I don't think you're right" to "you're a bad person". And I think that's at the core of how political and ideological discourse is so rotten today.
  - pstuart 8y ago
    Sigh. You went to effort to make your case but I don't buy it (and resent your conclusion of effectively blaming me for the failure of discourse today). > You're saying "willfully unintelligent" as if he's explicitly trying not to be intelligent No, I did not. He has access to the science and he also has a religious tract. He chooses to treat that religious tract as an inerrant literal depiction of the creation of the world. Those are competing thoughts and "willfully" means that he made a choice. And "willfully" is kind of tricky here, because it would not surprise me if he was raised in a Christian household that effectively brainwashed him into these beliefs. >And I think that's at the core of how political and ideological discourse is so rotten today. And I disagree. I think a huge part of the problem is religious fundamentalism and a rejection of science. Edit: oh, and neo-nazis and white supremacist are bad people m'kay?
    - peterwwillis 8y ago