5 ms·

Growing Up with Science Fiction (1978)

27 points by Hooke 8y ago

KineticLensman 8y ago
The article is Carl Sagan's perspective, and a lot of it is his current views of the SF he read when younger, as well as a general discussion about the value of SF to young enquiring minds. For a very different take, I really enjoyed the novel "Among Others" by Jo Walton which is a coming of age story about a young girl who is avid reader of SF/fantasy. It really puts you in the mindset of someone who is growing up with SF while they are in fact growing up, rather than thinking about it as an older person.
madengr 8y ago
Star Trek definitely influenced me into electrical engineering, along with much SciFi of the 70’s.
- jhbadger 8y ago
  And to be fair, the episode Sagan criticizes (presumably "The Omega Glory" in which the Enterprise visits a post-apocalyptic planet where there was a nuclear war between countries exactly like the US and USSR, down to the US side having an exact copy of the Constitution), is widely viewed as one of the worst episodes and most of the show wasn't like that.
ConfusedDog 8y ago
I grew up with Doraemon comics. It's a robotic raccoon from 22nd century travel back in time to 1980s to help babysit a stupid boy - well, that's mean, but with future tech helped, he got off pretty well and married the prettiest girl, etc. The future tech that raccoon has really got me into engineering. I think that series is a precious. ;-)
- massafaka 8y ago
  I always thought Doraemon was a cat robot. I doubt it's a racoon, because those don't exist in Japan. And I also don't think it's a Tanuki.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    It is a cat, but as for racoons: https://www.tofugu.com/japan/raccoons-in-japan/ https://www.tofugu.com/japan/raccoons-in-japan/
  - ConfusedDog 8y ago
    Haha. I say that just to tease Doraemon. People think he looks more like raccoon than cat. He gets really riled up by that.
gambler 8y ago
I seriously doubt that reading modern science fiction would have the same effect on anyone. Unfortunately. Unfortunately.
- User23 8y ago
  Fortunately there are plenty of old books to read if you prefer. Anything from Appendix N for example. Lest Darkness Fall by L. Sprague de Camp is a personal favorite.
- flowersniffer 8y ago
  I can't read the article right now, but I did click on the article. In the very first paragraph, Sagan is quoted to have said ‘Science fiction has led me to science.’ Now I am not sure if this is what the article about. But if it is, I can offer my own anecdote. I read "Blindsight" by Peter Watts (relatively modern) not so long ago and it did leave some big impression on me. Had I read it when I was very young, I can see myself getting interested in artificial intelligence, synthetic biology, neuroscience, cosmology etc.
- ecpottinger 8y ago
  There are still lots of good science fiction written today. Unfortunately in the past many of the writers did it because they in turn loved science fiction. Many (most?) writers in the past barely made a living off their writing and many had to have a second source of income to continue. In other words they did write thinking it would make them rich. Today with science fiction movies like Blade Runner, Star Wars and Star Trek, and TV shows like West World and Doctor Who and successful books on the Best Seller list writers think there is big money to be made. This has us ending up with a lot bad writing from people hoping to break in without learning even the basics of science fiction much less learn real science itself.
  - tsukikage 8y ago
    All media contains a mix of good things and bad things. The good things survive the test of time and, years on, are remembered and much loved; the bad things are quietly forgotten. So, when we look back at the past, it feels like the good we have now is much more dilute and harder to pick out than what we remember; but this impression is not an accurate reflection of reality. (The effect is even stronger with old foreign media, since only the better things crossed borders especially pre-internet but with each year we are exposed to more and more of the firehose).
TimMeade 8y ago
As someone who grew up in the 70's I completely agree with Dr. Sagan. I believe I have read everyone of these stories mentioned. I found it astounding he continually mentions Heinlein as he is my favorite author to this day. He taught a young moldable mind (mine) to think outside of societal norms and to believe that things can be done. His stories no longer seem to fit what the PC world we live in. The one book I was surprised to not see mentioned was Stranger in a Strange Land. Maybe Dr Sagan never groked it. I have read it more than 10 times and still wonder if I grok.
- merpnderp 8y ago
  I still reread Stranger in a Strange land and think I learn something new every time.
projectramo 8y ago
1. I don't mind if the science is not perfect. If the science conformed 100% with what we know it would not be science fiction, it would simply be fiction. I have heard people say that hard science fiction has to simply not contradict something we know. And that is a whole genre of course. 2. But what does bother me is when books, or movies, violate laws of human behavior. A perfectly gentle person suddenly becomes a killer, or an immoral law breaker sees the error of her ways and suddenly starts doing something to make amends. 3. What fascinates me about the books that Sagan grew up -- the classic age -- is the weird direction people thought science would go in. Radiation changes genes? Okay, instead of cancer it might give us super powers. There is current in your nervous tissue? Maybe you can "harness" it to produce currents etc.
- coldtea 8y ago
  >A perfectly gentle person suddenly becomes a killer Hasn't that happened numerous times in history? Perfectly common and nice everyday people have become killers under stress/passion/etc.
  - SamReidHughes 8y ago
    Or under a social structure, in a military.
  - projectramo 8y ago
    The purpose of the fiction is to show how it happens so we believe it, even expect it. The "suddenly" part is what makes it bad fiction. Even if it happens in real life, in fiction we want to see the mechanism and have it convince us.
    - coldtea 8y ago
      >The "suddenly" part is what makes it bad fiction. Even if it happens in real life, in fiction we want to see the mechanism and have it convince us. If something happens in real life, and especially as often, it should be convincing enough when presented in a story without a contrived mechanism to "explain" it pulp-novel style.

27 points by Hooke 8y ago

The article is Carl Sagan's perspective, and a lot of it is his current views of the SF he read when younger, as well as a general discussion about the value of SF to young enquiring minds. For a very different take, I really enjoyed the novel "Among Others" by Jo Walton which is a coming of age story about a young girl who is avid reader of SF/fantasy. It really puts you in the mindset of someone who is growing up with SF while they are in fact growing up, rather than thinking about it as an older person.

madengr 8y ago

Star Trek definitely influenced me into electrical engineering, along with much SciFi of the 70’s.

jhbadger 8y ago
And to be fair, the episode Sagan criticizes (presumably "The Omega Glory" in which the Enterprise visits a post-apocalyptic planet where there was a nuclear war between countries exactly like the US and USSR, down to the US side having an exact copy of the Constitution), is widely viewed as one of the worst episodes and most of the show wasn't like that.

ConfusedDog 8y ago

I grew up with Doraemon comics. It's a robotic raccoon from 22nd century travel back in time to 1980s to help babysit a stupid boy - well, that's mean, but with future tech helped, he got off pretty well and married the prettiest girl, etc. The future tech that raccoon has really got me into engineering. I think that series is a precious. ;-)

massafaka 8y ago
I always thought Doraemon was a cat robot. I doubt it's a racoon, because those don't exist in Japan. And I also don't think it's a Tanuki.
- coldtea 8y ago
  It is a cat, but as for racoons: https://www.tofugu.com/japan/raccoons-in-japan/ https://www.tofugu.com/japan/raccoons-in-japan/
- ConfusedDog 8y ago
  Haha. I say that just to tease Doraemon. People think he looks more like raccoon than cat. He gets really riled up by that.

gambler 8y ago

I seriously doubt that reading modern science fiction would have the same effect on anyone. Unfortunately. Unfortunately.

User23 8y ago
Fortunately there are plenty of old books to read if you prefer. Anything from Appendix N for example. Lest Darkness Fall by L. Sprague de Camp is a personal favorite.
flowersniffer 8y ago
I can't read the article right now, but I did click on the article. In the very first paragraph, Sagan is quoted to have said ‘Science fiction has led me to science.’ Now I am not sure if this is what the article about. But if it is, I can offer my own anecdote. I read "Blindsight" by Peter Watts (relatively modern) not so long ago and it did leave some big impression on me. Had I read it when I was very young, I can see myself getting interested in artificial intelligence, synthetic biology, neuroscience, cosmology etc.
ecpottinger 8y ago
There are still lots of good science fiction written today. Unfortunately in the past many of the writers did it because they in turn loved science fiction. Many (most?) writers in the past barely made a living off their writing and many had to have a second source of income to continue. In other words they did write thinking it would make them rich. Today with science fiction movies like Blade Runner, Star Wars and Star Trek, and TV shows like West World and Doctor Who and successful books on the Best Seller list writers think there is big money to be made. This has us ending up with a lot bad writing from people hoping to break in without learning even the basics of science fiction much less learn real science itself.
- tsukikage 8y ago
  All media contains a mix of good things and bad things. The good things survive the test of time and, years on, are remembered and much loved; the bad things are quietly forgotten. So, when we look back at the past, it feels like the good we have now is much more dilute and harder to pick out than what we remember; but this impression is not an accurate reflection of reality. (The effect is even stronger with old foreign media, since only the better things crossed borders especially pre-internet but with each year we are exposed to more and more of the firehose).

TimMeade 8y ago

As someone who grew up in the 70's I completely agree with Dr. Sagan. I believe I have read everyone of these stories mentioned. I found it astounding he continually mentions Heinlein as he is my favorite author to this day. He taught a young moldable mind (mine) to think outside of societal norms and to believe that things can be done. His stories no longer seem to fit what the PC world we live in. The one book I was surprised to not see mentioned was Stranger in a Strange Land. Maybe Dr Sagan never groked it. I have read it more than 10 times and still wonder if I grok.

merpnderp 8y ago
I still reread Stranger in a Strange land and think I learn something new every time.

projectramo 8y ago

1. I don't mind if the science is not perfect. If the science conformed 100% with what we know it would not be science fiction, it would simply be fiction. I have heard people say that hard science fiction has to simply not contradict something we know. And that is a whole genre of course. 2. But what does bother me is when books, or movies, violate laws of human behavior. A perfectly gentle person suddenly becomes a killer, or an immoral law breaker sees the error of her ways and suddenly starts doing something to make amends. 3. What fascinates me about the books that Sagan grew up -- the classic age -- is the weird direction people thought science would go in. Radiation changes genes? Okay, instead of cancer it might give us super powers. There is current in your nervous tissue? Maybe you can "harness" it to produce currents etc.

coldtea 8y ago
>A perfectly gentle person suddenly becomes a killer Hasn't that happened numerous times in history? Perfectly common and nice everyday people have become killers under stress/passion/etc.
- SamReidHughes 8y ago
  Or under a social structure, in a military.
- projectramo 8y ago
  The purpose of the fiction is to show how it happens so we believe it, even expect it. The "suddenly" part is what makes it bad fiction. Even if it happens in real life, in fiction we want to see the mechanism and have it convince us.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    >The "suddenly" part is what makes it bad fiction. Even if it happens in real life, in fiction we want to see the mechanism and have it convince us. If something happens in real life, and especially as often, it should be convincing enough when presented in a story without a contrived mechanism to "explain" it pulp-novel style.